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Dan Mac
08-19-2013, 08:55 PM
Mandated under Presidential Executive Order #14.
Did anyone see it?
Were the results reported in the main-stream media?
Did the findings surprise anyone here?
Will anyone else see it besides us?
Will anyone here write their local paper, as I did, to get the facts out?

This report should EVICERATE the anti-gun crowd. Will we work together to make that happen?

UD395.M1
08-19-2013, 09:15 PM
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6230a1.htm?s_cid=mm6230a1_w

Here is the CDC's MMWR for 2 AUG 2013.

surplusshooter
08-19-2013, 09:34 PM
"Gun violence" ??? What is that ? There is no such thing. If there is such a thing as gun violence, then 9-11 was airplane violence. We are all being brain washed with these incorrect terms. Guns do not and can not create violence, criminals do. Never accept this term, it's flat out wrong !

PattonWasRight
08-19-2013, 11:19 PM
Here's some meat ...

"the observed declines in firearm homicide rates and increases in firearm suicide rates are consistent with longer-term trends in homicide and suicide nationally (1). Homicide rates generally have been declining in the United States during the past two decades (1). Factors identified by previous research as influencing this decline include shifting demographics, changes in markets for illegal drugs (e.g., type, demand, and participants), law enforcement responses to gun violence and drug-related crime, increased incarceration rates, community policing and related efforts, and improving economic conditions throughout much of the 1990s"

Bottom line, homicide rates involving a gun have declined. Suicide rates involving a gun are up.

3StrikesNC
08-20-2013, 07:46 AM
and improving economic conditions throughout much of the 1990s"

Then came 2001 .....

aka108
08-20-2013, 09:22 AM
Suicide rates using a gun are up. So why blame the gun? If someone is hell bent on knocking themselves off, they will find a way. Jump off a bridge or building, hang using a bed sheet, cut their wrists. Maybe suicide rates are up. So many people are so self centered and sensitive today that they literally can't stand to have even one feather ruffled so they do things like that.

chuckindenver
08-20-2013, 09:26 AM
Suicide rates using a gun are up. So why blame the gun? If someone is hell bent on knocking themselves off, they will find a way. Jump off a bridge or building, hang using a bed sheet, cut their wrists. Maybe suicide rates are up. So many people are so self centered and sensitive today that they literally can't stand to have even one feather ruffled so they do things like that.

do you really think that???really? have you lost a loved one to suicide???
maybe its having to deal with close minded people such as yourself that pushed them over the edge..

8milimeter
08-20-2013, 10:39 AM
Guns do not increase the suicide rate.
If you want to end it all you will find a way.

Average suicide rates per 100k;
USA 12.0
UK 11.8
Australia 9.7
Canada 11.5
Ireland 11.4
Germany 9.9
China 22.0
Japan 21.7
Russia 20.2

dowell1865
08-20-2013, 10:49 AM
Suicide is a horrible thing but I would conclude that when economy's get worse people do that look at when the stock market crashed in 1929 people did that more than before we is say but yet again just my two cents no harm intended

chuckindenver
08-20-2013, 12:34 PM
personal choice is the only reason for suicide..nothing more...nothing less.
once a person has made that choice...nothing, no law, nobody will stop them.
if they want to get real with this..
howbout this fun fact..
poor doctor care, misdiagnosis is the leading cause of unnatuaral death, second to tobbacco and alcohol abuse over time...and all of those are choices as well.
so..maybe they need to pass a law forcing us to make better choices..or just make those choices for us....and we will live forever right?

Old Guard
08-20-2013, 12:44 PM
Chuck, really don't believe that 'They want any one to be too Old???Let alone forever..If a Politician gets sick, they get overnight healthcare or a transplant,Or bypass,, Joe Blow gets lots of tests then maybe in a month ,,,surgery... But I agree about suicide, you have a hard time changing their mind, If they Want it...Even Suicide by Police...Which is tough on everybody involved...

GarandGrabber
08-20-2013, 02:33 PM
See this one headed for a moderator shut down...

lonegunman
08-20-2013, 05:40 PM
I have always wanted to ask a few questions to the leftist dingbats who study this sort of thing.

1. How can you support suicide, assisted suicide, abortion, euthanasia, the right to die and then get upset over suicide by firearm? You defend the right to die,,,,,,,,,,,let them enjoy their choice and embrace their happiness.

2. Criminals do not obey the law,,,,,,,,,,,,,,hence the term,,"criminal". When a person convicted of a felony obtains a firearm he is guilty of yet another crime, carrying it concealed an additional crime, using it in a crime, an additional crime, hurting or killing someone an additional crime. Do you think the criminal is detered by a "background" check on the person he stole the gun from?

3. Why are most of the mass killers in the last three decades democrats or from families with strong ties to the democrat party? What is it that makes the left so violent?

4. Most convicted felons support democrats for political office, why do you think criminals and democrats have so much in common?

Just wondering.

Kansas Poster
08-20-2013, 05:54 PM
Well, this post will not last long. Not the place for it.

I have always wanted to ask a few questions to the leftist dingbats who study this sort of thing.

1. How can you support suicide, assisted suicide, abortion, euthanasia, the right to die and then get upset over suicide by firearm? You defend the right to die,,,,,,,,,,,let them enjoy their choice and embrace their happiness.

2. Criminals do not obey the law,,,,,,,,,,,,,,hence the term,,"criminal". When a person convicted of a felony obtains a firearm he is guilty of yet another crime, carrying it concealed an additional crime, using it in a crime, an additional crime, hurting or killing someone an additional crime. Do you think the criminal is detered by a "background" check on the person he stole the gun from?

3. Why are most of the mass killers in the last three decades democrats or from families with strong ties to the democrat party? What is it that makes the left so violent?

4. Most convicted felons support democrats for political office, why do you think criminals and democrats have so much in common?

Just wondering.

gunny
08-20-2013, 05:59 PM
I'm prepared to assist with suicide by home invasion...:)

Kablemodem
08-20-2013, 06:05 PM
I'm prepared to assist with suicide by home invasion...:)

Someone needs to start a thread on drywall repair in the How To section.

Dan Mac
08-20-2013, 08:37 PM
We seem to be focused on suicide, not the real issue here.
The CDC study exposes "gun control" efforts as a sham.
I have written my local paper on the results of the study. Not surprisingly, I received a reply to my letter. The editor stated that I mentioned that the results of the study were being ignored by the main-stream media, which, she claimed, was "factually incorrect", as a "simple Google search" indicated that "major news organizations" had in fact covered it. She stated that if I "corrected" this flawed statement, she would "consider" printing my letter.
I proposed adding "largely" to the "ignored". Hopefully, we'll see the result of my "compromise" shortly.
As to suicide by gun, I have seen several suicides, and suicide attempts, in my career, and guns aren't the "easy way out". Drug overdoses are #1, followed by burning yourself to death, hanging, driving the wrong way down the highway, and, yes, occasionally shooting yourself to death. The latest fad is death by poison gas, complete with a courtesy warning sign for first responders not to get too close too soon. "Exit", or "escape" bags, made with an easy to obtain inert gas, have found their way from Europe (or so I am told) into the living rooms of the latest suicide victims I have seen.
Don't tell me guns make suicide "easy". People are cleaver, and will find a way to kill themselves when required to do so.
And for the record, my heart aches for EVERY ONE OF THEM, unless they harmed someone else in the process.

lonegunman
08-21-2013, 11:18 AM
Well, this post will not last long. Not the place for it.


Sorry you have thin skin. So many people of a certain political bent, seem to these days.

They are valid questions and they are wholly ignored in this study and others related to this issue.

It is strange to demand the right to suicide, then demand to regulate the chosen method.

It is strange to blame the owner of a stolen gun for the acts of the criminal and not do the same to the owner of the stolen car.

It is very apparent that by blaming the legal gun owner for the acts of criminals that people from a particular party consider all gun owners criminals, potential criminals or acting in concert with criminals.

I just read an 80 page handbook for anti-gunners published by the left, it guides them on one particular track. To associate all gun owners with criminal acts, associate the NRA with criminals and to brand anyone opposed to anti-gun leglislation as "anti-public safety".

lonegunman
08-21-2013, 11:41 AM
http://washingtonexaminer.com/democratic-anti-gun-guide-urged-using-trayvon-martins-death-to-hit-nra-guns/article/2533972

It might be important to remember that a certain political movement in this country wholly supports removing all firearms from private hands, including Garands, carbines, air rifles and deactivated parade rifles. They would end the CMP in a heart beat if they could. They would send every Garand no matter how rare and desirable to the crusher. All they need is 51 votes and a President to sign the order.

They provide handooks to their minions and guidance to their media outlets to convey their message. In the last 12 months we have scene news stories of a deaf child being told by the school he was not allowed to sign his name, "Gunner", because it was to violent. http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/28/13531342-deaf-childs-sign-language-name-looks-too-much-like-gun-parent-says-school-told-him?lite

And a child removed from school for chewing a Pop Tart into a gun shape. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/boy-suspended-gun-shaped-pop-tart-lifetime-nra-membership-article-1.1359918

There are movements to ban lead, restrict amunition, close shooting ranges and do all manner of things to end our hobby and competitive shooting sports. The Olympics wants to switch to laser tag style guns and eliminate real firearms altogether. The State Department is supporting a UN anti-gun treaty without Senate approval. If you enjoy the CMP, organized shooting, gun collecting or anything firearm related you might want to take note of who it is trying to end your hobby and remove your right to bear arms.

Deleting my posts and posts that relate to our hobby will not make the threat go away. Pretending you support the right to enjoy this hobby and voting for those who would gladly end it seems odd to me.

Demanding we ignore your efforts to end our hobby seem like a bit to much to ask.

Schriv
08-21-2013, 05:51 PM
The CDC wants to focus on the suicide/health angle to frame the debate in medical terms and move away from discussing it as a criminal activity.
Especially if they have to factor in the U.S governments own demographic data of just who is conducting that criminal activity. It doesn't look good for the Democrats home team when you add in real numbers. By making 'gun violence' a health issue, they probably think they can attack it like any other disease. They feel that banning guns should stop being looked at as a rights violation and become a public health service.

pmclaine
08-21-2013, 06:15 PM
They feel that banning guns should stop being looked at as a rights violation and become a public health service.

Good thing the health services are private entities with their own politics and morals to govern their policies. No federal politics to control their actions and perhaps follow an agenda.

Right?

Schriv
08-21-2013, 06:29 PM
Yeah... there certainly isn't any political bias in the healthcare world. Leaning to the left seems to pretty much be a requirement.:)

Deuceguy
08-21-2013, 08:02 PM
Last I checked, this is forums.thecmp.org, not the forums.thecdc.org. It's not about having thin skin because of a comment about this thread getting locked. It's about the direction a thread is going.

There was a recent news story from a local network about the National Matches. A comment I remember was about the competitions being apolitical-no spot for the pro or anti-gunner. Just sportsmen.

One can provide all the links to facts, numbers, studies and news articles about politics. If I want to read that crap, I'll go to another website. But in this site, I am just a sportsman, learning about stuff that not many people care to know about.

Schriv
08-21-2013, 11:53 PM
Ok.
So as 'just a sportsman', it doesn't bother you at all that your chosen sport/hobby/collecting addiction etc. is viewed with disgust if not outright hatred by a fairly vocal and very politically active portion of the population? And also by some prominent news organizations and government figures? I don't see how anyone could come to this or any other firearms related site and claim to be truly apolitical.

Deuceguy
08-22-2013, 10:30 PM
Sure it bothers me. I'd prefer not to be reminded of how much it bothers me on the CMP form. Please, let me know if there is a problem with that.

Dan Mac
08-23-2013, 06:18 PM
Got an email today accepting my letter. It took three days of back and forth with the editor to get it approved.
Now a few thousand more people will know about the result of this report.
It's not a lot, but it's a start.
Anyone else care to write?

lapriester
08-23-2013, 07:39 PM
Unfortuntely you have places like Deschutes County Oregon where firearm violence is up about 30% in the last three years and no one has an answer why. What's even stranger is that about 60% have carry permits. It flys in the face of most statistics across the country. I was bit shocked when I read it while at my place near Bend in that County. Bend, in particular, has a very high firearm incident rate which I find surprising to say the least especially when the local economy is actually improving. It seems the better the economy has become the greater the number, severity and frequency of incidents.

L

Dan Mac
08-23-2013, 09:38 PM
Deuceguy,
You have a valid point. Much like a friend of mine did twenty years or so ago.
They were coming after "assault weapons" at the time. Some ex-NRA member named Clinton. Or was it his wife?
Anyway, my friend was a hunter. I told him, get involved. FIGHT! He said no, it doesn't affect me. I'm just a hunter. I don't care.
Well, guess what? My state picked up on the national hysteria of the moment, and introduce sweeping, "toughest in the nation" "gun-control" laws.
Boy, was my friend affected! His gun license fee QUADRUPLED, and his "good for life" license vanished like a fart in the wind! The local Police chief capitalized on the instability of the moment by declaring that anyone with a gun permit had to belong to a gun club, or their permit would be revoked.
It cost him hundreds of dollars, and a threat of confiscation of his firearms, before he was able to legally possess what he already owned.
The time to fight is NOW! Do it before it's too late.

Deuceguy
08-24-2013, 09:26 AM
Dan, I'm confused as to how you relate my point to your friend's point. Your last post implies that I'm not doing anything about this. I don't remember giving you my resume detailing what I am doing to perpetuate this hobby/sport.

I agree with GarandGrabber and Kansas Poster that this forum has no place for the politics (Note the stickies on political threads). I don't think it's right to call someone "thin skinned" because they don't want the politics here.

Dan Mac
08-24-2013, 04:18 PM
I don't think your thin skinned at all. I think you have a valid point, one that I respect.
The individual I was referring to never wanted to listen to my concerns when I brought up "gun control". "Not the place, not the time".
Funny, he came up to me outraged that he had to fork over hundreds of dollars to keep his guns.
I told him, "not the place, not the time"!
I don't need to know what anyone here does or doesn't do to promote the shooting sport. I simply suggest that we need to become "louder" than those who would demonize us for our love of the shooting sport. We are beginning to make a difference. But we need "all hands" to be effective.
And I will continue to point out items of interest that concern the shooting sports, in hopes that someone will act on the information I provide.

Deuceguy
08-25-2013, 02:21 AM
I was referring to the thin skin comment in a previous post on this thread. In a way, your friend fought back by paying the money to keep his guns. But whether we pay fees to those who take advantage of a situation OR we "donate" extra to the pro groups or drive somewhere to take part in a rally and hold up signs, money (and time) is getting paid somewhere. It's about the bottom line. I was surprised many times the NRA telemarketers called my house to get me to cough up money. I respect the fact that we as a group pay attention to politics and statistics. I will always believe actions speak louder than words so I will continue to be "louder" by getting the younger generation involved. That is perpetuity. I mean no disrespect to anyone on this forum when I say this but, I can't stand the politics on this forum. I guess I consider this forum a "safe haven." Anyone can tell me to not pay attention to this stuff here, but I treat this forum as if it were a shooting range.