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lpd321
11-29-2009, 09:27 PM
I purchased this Remington Model 11 (12 gauge) in a package deal with a FN Browning Hi-Power and Radom P-35 with holsters (Nazi proof marked for both pistols). The Model 11 appears to be a Riot Shotgun but I am not well versed in Riot shotguns so I decided to see if anyone on the forums had any of the answers.

Serial number: 463### (Date of manufacture)
Reads (The Sportsman) on the bolt
20-inch solid ribbed barrel with the following stamped on the left side of the barrel: Model 11 The Remington Arms Union Metallic CTG. CO..Inc. Remington Ilion Wks. Ilion, N.Y. U.S.A.
Browning Patents October.9.1900 Dec. 17. 1901 Sept. 30.1902. and June 16. 1903

Closer to the chamber on the barrel it is stamped CYL and on the right side it as REP in a circle. It is stamped with the serial number 195### that was originally lightly stamped then over stamped with the same number.

Has the U.S. with ordinance Bomb stamped on the left side of the receiver with a duck. On the right side of the receiver, there is a pheasant. The checkered buttstock is varnished with a cross cannon cart on the left side of the buttstock. Appears to have the original Remington butt plate. Almost forgot that the shotgun is blued and probably 85-90% remaining. The barrel appears to have been cut down long ago but appears to have been with the receiver for quite a long time due to the wear patterns. I would be grateful for any information regarding this shotgun. What a kind of price these weapons bring? I cannot post pictures since I am using an issued computer (policy) but could email pics if needed. Thanks

douglas34474
11-29-2009, 09:38 PM
The latest American Rifleman has a write up on the Remington Mod 11 shotguns used in WW1.

Your shotgun may be original. Due to a shortage of Trench Guns, the US bought many Riot Guns to be used for guard duty. I believe some were cut down from long barrels.

HTH

Douglas

la Fiere
11-29-2009, 10:27 PM
I have seen Remington 11's with the ordnance markings you describe from time to time on the used rack at my local gun shop. From what I've read they were used to train anti-aircraft gunners.

The ribbed barrel and gamebird etchings would designate your example as a sporting model; you're right that the barrel was most likely shortened at some point. I haven't heard the story of long-barreled versions being cut down for combat use and can't speak to that one way or the other.

For what it's worth, in my view an old Remington Model 11 can still be a good reliable shotgun. I have one that I refurbished and cut the barrel down to 18". It took some trial and error to get the springs and friction pieces set up right; but now it operates with 2 3/4" buckshot and slug loads quite well. A friend of mine has a 20" model that his grandfather bought as surplus from the South San Francisco PD sometime in the 50's or 60's.

DaveHH
11-30-2009, 10:49 AM
Auto 5 made by Remington. Browning turned to Remington and Savage to make his shotgun when FN was busy arming Germany. The weak link is the bolt. They were sometimes messed up by people swapping recoil springs from the Sportsman model to use low base shells without having to reverse the friction ring. I know that I had a beauty and had just busted 25 on the trap pitch when the bolt fell apart on the line. I ultimately found a replacement, but sold it after that and went to a Model 12. If everything is set up right, they are just as good as the Browning.

GYUSMC
11-30-2009, 12:21 PM
Look on the left side of the barrel. There should be 2 or 3 letters, stamped close to the reciever. Such as AMM. That will tell you when the barrel was made. The reciever serial # is in the range of WWII contract guns. The barrel should also have US and flaming bomb. The butt stock should also have crossed cannons, and possable an inspectors stamp. If you take the butt stock off the reciever it should have a matching serial #. With just the reciever being marked, with out matching #'s on the barrel / buttstock, and no other martial markings. Your looking at a couple hundred bucks

dave tengdin
11-30-2009, 01:30 PM
It should say "Military Finish" on it too.

Look carefully down the barrel from the breech end. See if there is a "step" toward the muzzle end similar to what you see in a choked gun. Even cylinder bored shotgun barrels have a slight choke to them. If not, (and it's just a straight tube) then you probably have a cut down barrel from the 26" training gun version. You should check to see it the SN on the barrel and reciever match too.

I sold a minty (99+%) 26" Military Sportsman on Auction Arms last year for $550. A rougher one would be in the ~$300-400 range. I would guess a cut-down barrel would be a little bit less, say $225-300 (depending on condition of course). An ORIGINAL 95+%riot length ought to be in the $800-1000 range I would think.

lpd321
11-30-2009, 09:02 PM
Everyone, Thanks for the info it has been a great help.
GYUSMC, I will have to look at the barrel again but I believe all I seen was the stamp of CYL or is the code under the forearm? The barrel does not have any other martial arms markings and has a serial number of 195### thus not a match. It does not look like a garage hack job but the end of the barrel is in white but showing age as if they cut it down to use for another purpose such as guard duty. I looked down the barrel and it from my point of view does not tapper down and just looks like a straight tube. Guess we will never know but can see the military taking longer barrels and cutting them down if in a pinch. Lord knows we did some strange stuff when you needed something like yesterday. How do you remove the stock? I am assuming you need to take off the butt plate and there is a bolt or screw further up inside the stock. I did Google the Model 11 and found some results indicating that early on they took civilian shotguns and stamped them with ordinance markings (U.S. with bomb) on the receiver without the military finish marking to the right until later when the finish was changed to park Finnish. Along without marking the barrels with the ordinance bomb and just placing the cross cannon cart on the stock with nothing else until later in the war. Anyone suggest a book that is out there that would be beneficial for this subject matter. Like I said I virtually know nothing about these and it was included on the package deal. Thanks for all the help and let me know if you find or locate any additional information.

la Fiere
12-01-2009, 12:03 AM
As far as stock removal goes, there is no retaining bolt under the butt plate like an 870 has. Instead the stock is removed by undoing the rearmost screw in the tang that extends from the back of the trigger guard, (the one with the little lockscrew securing it). There is a long action spring housing that extends back into a hole in the buttstock.

For manuals, I have an old copy of TM 9-285 which addresses all the military shotguns that were in use at the time it was published (the edition I have is dated 1942) including the Model 11 as well as a bunch of other old favorites. There are probably easier-to-get modern assembly guides out there, (or maybe even reprints), however.

GYUSMC
12-01-2009, 09:49 AM
The 2 or 3 letter barrel code should be right there on the left side, somewhere around the CYL mark. Like la Fiere said, taking out the tang screws should remove the stock. Yes early on in the war, commercial grade, blued, engraved shotguns where purchased. Canfield's "Combat Shotguns" is a good low cost overview.

lpd321
12-01-2009, 07:20 PM
GYUSMC, I pulled it out and the stock is a match and also attempted to locate the letter code on the barrel. No dice. There is nothing besides the stamp of CYL. Is this odd? I did find the letter A stamped on the bottom of the barrel next to the chamber with a U about a half inch away with a large C or O.

navyrifleman
12-01-2009, 08:43 PM
You can request a photo copy of an origional Remington Manual for your shotgun by contacting Remington Arms via their website. I have a Model 11 which dates to 1914 and I was able to obtain a manual for it this way. There are a number of ways to set up the springs and rings and the book explains it well.