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Eli552
10-22-2011, 09:03 PM
So... I have a question that I was hoping you gents would have some answers on. Ive seen adds in every one of my NRA's I recieve each month about (Mitchells Mausers). Decent priced K98k's... I'd Like somthing different for a change. But, I Know dang near nothing about them. Input? Requirments? Opinions?

Thanks guys-

Amsdorf
10-22-2011, 09:11 PM
On the various military surplus fora I'm involved in I have never read a single good thing about Mitchell's Mausers. Google:

Mitchell Mauser review

You'll be able to read the negative reviews and comments.

Short Round
10-22-2011, 09:38 PM
On the various military surplus fora I'm involved in I have never read a single good thing about Mitchell's Mausers. Google:

Mitchell Mauser review

You'll be able to read the negative reviews and comments.

They're mausers but other than german, they're scrubbed then fake german markings applied.

Eli552
10-22-2011, 09:58 PM
They're mausers but other than german, they're scrubbed then fake german markings applied.

REALLY??? :eek: Holy caca...

Torquemada
10-22-2011, 10:19 PM
They're mausers but other than german, they're scrubbed then fake german markings applied.
I think their rifles are typically Yugo in origin, but they are indeed faked from all accounts I have read. Avoid them like the plague.

RazorBurn
10-22-2011, 10:24 PM
I've never heard one good thing about them. They're ads look all nice and matter of fact, but they're reputation on gun forums is terrible from all I've seen and the reviews I've read.

Det. Jason 714
10-22-2011, 10:30 PM
I bought one years ago, yugo mauser still in cosmoline. Saw the add in the VFW magazine, have never shot it though. I wish I would of known their reputation prior to purchase.

Milsurp Collector
10-22-2011, 10:40 PM
They used to advertise Yugo M48 Mausers as "98 Mausers made with German machinery" blah blah, and fooled some people into thinking they were getting Kar98k rifles.

Then like a lot of importers they got access to Russian Capture (RC) Kar98k's that were real Nazi Kar98k's that had been captured by or surrendered to the Soviets. At some point the Soviets took the valuable Kar98k's apart down to parts, refinished the parts, and then assembled mixmasters from parts, pretty much destroying the collector's value of the rifles as German Kar98k's.

Mitchell's Mausers takes the RC Kar98k's and pimp-shines them: heavily sand the stock, polish the bolt to an inauthentic bare-metal shine, stamp new "matching numbers" on them, then charge a premium for their handiwork.

They have even less collector value than a regular RC Kar98k, but like any Kar98k they can be good shooters. But there is no reason to pay the increased price for their pimp-shined version when you can get an unmessed-with RC Kar98k for less http://www.allans-armory.com/aaresult.php?PageId=45

A regular RC at least has some collector value as an RC and can be just as good a shooter, for less than Mitchell's charges.

An original Kar98k
http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt337/milsurp_collector/K98k/bnz%2043/DSC04615a.jpg

An honest Russian Capture (RC) Kar98k
http://i52.tinypic.com/xo380m.jpg

A Mitchell's Mauser pimp-shined RC Kar98k. Look at the stock and bolt.
http://www.mauser.net/firearms/rifles/mauser-rifles/k98german/GermanK98-02_1200.png

abeal
10-22-2011, 10:44 PM
Keep in mind it is still a K98 but has been refinished. Same for Russian Capture K98s. Collectors turn up their noses at both of them. But they all go bang when you pull the trigger. The question then is how pure do you want your rifle to be? $300 for an RC or $800+ for an original K98. Just be aware of original K98s since parts are faked quite frequently.

Amsdorf
10-22-2011, 10:48 PM
What I've read often is how people resent how Mitchell's gushes on about these rifles and makes them sound like they are actual German K98s. And charges a premium for their stripped and refinished stocks, giving people the impression they are somehow original K98s.

captaincalc
10-23-2011, 12:04 AM
You need to really read the wording of all advertising - much like you have to check out the exact wording of politicians -- They usually spell out what they have, to whit: the made on German machinery statement. Lots of guys, I imagine, took it to mean made in germany during WW2 and were mad when they found out the reality. Read carefully, buyer beware, and all that.

Milsurp Collector
10-23-2011, 12:26 AM
You need to really read the wording of all advertising - much like you have to check out the exact wording of politicians

Exactly. Like when they say "matching numbers" the numbers do indeed match each other, so they are technically correct. They aren't original markings and they might have been stamped last year or last month or last week, but they are "matching numbers", so technically it isn't false advertising.

They also like to use the phrase "kept in military storage" and imply that the Germans hid some secret cache of K98k's. They don't mention that the "military" that kept them in storage was the old Soviet Union. They also say the rifles were "factory refurbished" while not mentioning that the "factory" was in the Ukraine or Russia, not Germany. But while the ads are misleading they aren't bald-faced lies. I'm sure their lawyers made sure of that.

Most RC K98k's have an "X" stamped on the receiver, which was a Soviet capture marking. I have seen Mitchell's Mausers at gun shows where an extra line was added to the "X" to make it into a * to disguise it.

They are looking for customers who don't know much about K98k's

But, I Know dang near nothing about them.

and advertise heavily in gun magazines to try to find them. Thank goodness the OP asked before buying.

But again, they can be good shooters, so there is nothing wrong with getting a used one for a RC price, as long as you know what you are buying.

Doubs43
10-23-2011, 01:43 AM
If you want a real laugh, go to their on-line site and check what they want for JUNK Lugers! A person could buy a very nice all matching Luger for what they're asking for garbage. The advertising they post is close to, if not past, the point where it's false advertising. With Mitchell's, "Caveat Emptor" is the only thing to remember.

lite-box
10-23-2011, 01:57 AM
The add for Fake Mosin 91-30 PU snipers is Hilarious.

The same Repro sniper you can get for less than $400 everywhere else they will sell to you for $1400 and than you can buy the accessories that come free from everyone else for only another $200 !

dpd3672
10-23-2011, 02:31 AM
While their advertising pushes the envelope for honesty, in my opinion, their guns aren't too bad of a deal for some buyers. The same person who might pick up the Springfield Armory, Inc version of the WW2 1911A1 (GI.45), or the Remington version of the 1911, or the Auto Ordinance M1A1 Carbine would probably be very happy with a Mitchell's K98, i.e. someone looking for a pristine "version" of an older gun without paying the premium for a "real" one.

There's 3 basic types of antique gun, with lots of grey area in between and a fair amount of overlap between the types. You can buy a pristine original model for a LOT of money (like a Collector Grade Garand), a rougher version for a lot less money (FG or RG), or a new model for (possibly) even less (well, there's nothing comparable in a Garand, but you get the idea). I have no complaint with their product, just with the shady way they market them.

Personally, I've always loved the AC Cobra, but if and when I ever go shopping for one, you can be damned certain it'll be a replica, as I'd rather spend $20-30k on something I can drive than $500k for something I'd be afraid to even wax! As long as the seller lets me know what I'm getting, I'd have no problem with it. Other than the "humped" complaints, I've never heard anything bad about a Mitchell's Mauser as a shooter.

xring
10-23-2011, 11:44 AM
Agreed, but they do look pretty

deputy85
10-23-2011, 12:07 PM
Buddy of mine has a collectors version that he bought 10 yrs ago, it's a beautiful rifle and shoots great, but he actually likes the RC's 98s that i bought and shared with him much better, luckily when he bought they were much cheaper, mitchell has really jacked his prices up in recent years

Rick the Librarian
10-23-2011, 12:07 PM
Miltech is another source of cobbled together, pieced together "pretty" military rifles. A M1903 costs in the neighborhood of $1300-1500, a M1903A3 nearly as much. They have almost no collector value and bring a small fraction of the paying price when you go to resell.

But they sure LOOK nice!! :D

Milsurp Collector
10-23-2011, 01:38 PM
Agreed, but they do look pretty

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. ;)

Original K98k's in excellent condition are the best looking to me. A Mitchell's Mauser reminds me of an older woman who had too much plastic surgery. :D

http://allieiswired.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/celebrity-plastic-surgery-nightmares-joan-rivers.jpg

old ironside
10-23-2011, 04:44 PM
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. ;)

Original K98k's in excellent condition are the best looking to me. A Mitchell's Mauser reminds me of an older woman who had too much plastic surgery. :D


if I was going to wear out a woman though, I'd prefer to wear out the one with plastic surgery and take good care of the one who does not need it. Who says you can't have both? "If you can't be with the one you love,.. love the one you're with"

medalguy
10-23-2011, 04:51 PM
When all's said and done, they are overpriced shooters. My son thought about getting one last year and finally decided to go ahead and buy one for shooting. He knows it's not a collector and he just uses it to go to the range and shoot paper. He likes video games and I gave him a Garand and 1911A1, and he wanted to try a 98 also, and this was the cheapest way for him to get a nice looking rifle.

Just be sure you understand exactly what you're buying and what it's really worth-- to you.

harleybob
10-23-2011, 06:51 PM
I bought a Russian Capture (RC) about 8 years ago. It came with a very ugly red colored finish on the wood. It was chipping off so I decided to strip it down to bare wood. I was only into the rifle for $150.00 so it didn't matter to me. I did dwell on it for a while as I considered the red paint a part of it's history. When it was all off, I noticed a bunch of Waffenamps stamped into the stock that were invisible before. The rifle came without some small capture screws and no ramrod but were easily replaced.

HB

Frederick
10-24-2011, 12:14 PM
I wonder how many people who are bad mouthing the Mitchell's Mausers actually own one. I've had one for several years and have no complaints. Mine is in like new condition, shoots great and looks great. My son's K-98 cost more, shoots worse, and looks like crap. In my opinion, if you want all the history on the rifle, don't buy a Mitchell's. If you want a Mauser that shoots and looks like new, then buy a Mitchell's.
Just my opinion.

Milsurp Collector
10-24-2011, 12:38 PM
I wonder how many people who are bad mouthing the Mitchell's Mausers actually own one. I've had one for several years and have no complaints. Mine is in like new condition, shoots great and looks great. My son's K-98 cost more, shoots worse, and looks like crap. In my opinion, if you want all the history on the rifle, don't buy a Mitchell's. If you want a Mauser that shoots and looks like new, then buy a Mitchell's.
Just my opinion.

Do you have the Mitchell's M48

http://www.mauser.net/firearms/rifles/mauser-rifles/m48mauser-rifle/M48%20background.jpg

or K98?

http://www.mauser.net/firearms/rifles/mauser-rifles/k98german/GermanK98-02_1200.png

The M48s are often in unissued condition and should be expected to be good shooters. Still, you can get exactly the same M48 for less ($220) than Mitchell's sells them for ($449-$549) http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/2PWAM48-1.html

A Mitchell's K98 is an ex-RC K98 and can be a good (or not) shooter just like any RC K98. But again, you can get a RC K98 cheaper ($320-340) than Mitchell's sells them for ($399-$795) http://www.allans-armory.com/aaresult.php?PageId=45 If someone doesn't like the Soviet shellac on the stock it is easy to remove with denatured alcohol.

nmckenzie
10-24-2011, 01:27 PM
Guess I've got the best of both worlds. Several years back I'd bought a BCD/43 Russian capture Mitchell's that was sporting a Leupold intermediate eye relief scope. Sold the scope for darn near what I'd paid for the entire rig and ordered a replacement rear sight from GPC. Some months later a bring-back 243/1940, all matching with original sling, popped up at a garage sale. Bore is perfect, price was right, so it now roosts next to the the BCD and a Spandau 1905 Gew 98.

Frederick
10-24-2011, 04:05 PM
Mine is an M-48. Bought it from Dunham's sporting goods store several years ago for $350. That was my first mil-surp. Since then I've overspent on many others. Why didn't I get into this hobby back in the 60's?

dociceit
10-24-2011, 07:30 PM
Mine is an M-48. Bought it from Dunham's sporting goods store several years ago for $350. That was my first mil-surp. Since then I've overspent on many others. Why didn't I get into this hobby back in the 60's?

Yeah, although for me it would be the 80's, I ask the same question all the time.....

Milsurp Collector
10-24-2011, 07:50 PM
http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt337/milsurp_collector/oldGunAds/b8fae0a6.jpg
http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt337/milsurp_collector/oldGunAds/59d6355e.jpg
http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt337/milsurp_collector/oldGunAds/9da6a8ca.jpg

nmckenzie
10-24-2011, 09:05 PM
Enjoyed the trip down memory lane. For those of you who're old enough, do you remember what your weekly paycheck was back around 1965 or so? As best I recollect mine was just about the price of one of those Century Arms Garands.

Rick the Librarian
10-24-2011, 09:06 PM
Ah... those were the days! I got in at the end of that era. Paid $18.95 for a No. 4 Mk1, $29.95 for a Eddystone M1917 and $39.95 for my first (of many) M1903. I still have all three rifles, by the way.

Frederick
10-24-2011, 09:45 PM
I passed on a Smidt Rubin in mint condition because the guy wanted too much for it and wouldn't come down from $15. Of course that was when I was about 14 years old .$15 was about what I earned in a month!

reelguy
10-24-2011, 10:04 PM
You know how to make a grown man (and less than 50 y.o.) cry!

http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt337/milsurp_collector/oldGunAds/b8fae0a6.jpg
http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt337/milsurp_collector/oldGunAds/59d6355e.jpg
http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt337/milsurp_collector/oldGunAds/9da6a8ca.jpg

BigFish
10-24-2011, 10:15 PM
Anyone know how I can send some money and a wishlist back to my Dad in the early '60s??? ;)
My Dad was never into guns. My Grandfathers were, but their guns went to my Uncles and are long gone now. Love seeing those ads from back then!

lite-box
10-24-2011, 10:29 PM
$80 was alot of money in the 1960's

In 2040-50 people are going to look at Current surp prices the same way ......

musketjon
10-24-2011, 10:54 PM
I remember in high school in the early 70's I could have bought all the K98's a guy could want at the local hock shop for about $30 apiece. Ah yes, the good old days. Remember, gasoline was only about $.30-$.35 a gallon then too.
Jon

Taroman
10-24-2011, 11:12 PM
These old ads make you nostalgic, but $79.95 in 1963 had the same buying power as $576.43 in 2011.

Those M1s were probably rackers or field grade at best, so we're breaking even at least.

Rember, these will someday be the gool old days!

Milsurp Collector
10-25-2011, 12:46 AM
The first two ads are from 1960, the third from 1968. The first two ads and maybe the third as well date from before the Gun Control Act of 1968, so you could have ordered by phone or mail and had the firearms delivered to your door.

Some adjustments for inflation:

Johnson rifle $77.50 in 1960 = $564 in 2010 dollars
Recent sale: $5,950 http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=245781295

SMLE $9.95 in 1960 = $72 in 2010 dollars
Recent sale $441 http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=255190828

Enfield No. 4 Mk 1 (T) sniper $38.88 in 1960 = $283 in 2010 dollars
Recent sale $3,200 http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=248742880

High number M1903 $38.88 in 1960 = $283 in 2010 dollars
Recent sale $1,000 http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=247540595

M1917 $29.95 in 1960 = $218 in 2010 dollars
Recent sale $750 http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=249669989

German G43 $59.50 in 1968 = $369 in 2010 dollars
Recent sale $3,190 http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=250400907

German K98 $28.00 in 1968 = $174 in 2010 dollars
Recent sale $2,000 http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=255624098

Swedish M41 Sniper $69.50 in 1968 = $431 in 2010 dollars
Recent sale $1,975 http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=253198068

aj98
10-25-2011, 09:24 AM
Have to agree with Fred, looks nice, shoots well.
I picked up my 98K Mitchells at a local gun show.

I have a Mitchells b/c I have a PO box on my picture ID's, and many vendors refuse to sell to me b/c of it.

At the particular show, I bought a Mitchells for about 30$ more than the well used variety carried by other vendors; that vendor accepted my PO box addressed ID and physical address concealed carry license & voter ID card, so he got the sale.

Marketing issues aside:

In a sense, the work is no different than putting new wood on a USGI rifle, then having it reparked.

In the white bolt - well...the Germans buffed and blued a lot of those Bavarian Carbines....or put on Erma barrels, or their own stocks.
How many of us complained about that?

The Original Youngblood
10-25-2011, 09:55 AM
Mitchells Mausers? <snip> ... Opinions?

Due to their many years of false advertising, if Mitchell's Mausers was on fire, I would not so much as urinate on them ...

Howzat? :)

Milsurp Collector
10-25-2011, 10:21 AM
In a sense, the work is no different than putting new wood on a USGI rifle, then having it reparked.

No, Mitchell takes original stocks and then heavily sands them. It is no different than having USGI stocks with genuine SA/GHS or SA/GAW or FJA or WRA/GHD markings and Ordnance wheels and sanding them heavily until all cartouches and original finish is gone.

When harleybob removed the shellac from his RC K98 stock he found several original Nazi markings on the stock. You will rarely see that on a Mitchell's stock, they have been sanded off to make the stock look "new", although K98 stocks didn't originally look like that.

The metal isn't just refinished, markings are altered or added.


In the white bolt - well...the Germans buffed and blued a lot of those Bavarian Carbines....or put on Erma barrels, or their own stocks.
How many of us complained about that?

That work was done by a military organization and is part of the history of those carbines. Mitchell is a commercial enterprise like Miltech and their work is done to increase appeal of their products to certain types of buyers, and adds nothing to the history of those rifles. In fact, it erases some of it.

When discussing Mitchell's Mausers, it is always difficult to inform potential buyers without making people who own already own one feel like they have to justify their purchase. We all agree that they can be good shooters. Most agree that their advertising is misleading at best. It's a fact that Mitchell's charges more and that the same or equivalent rifles are available for less.

Rick the Librarian
10-25-2011, 10:21 AM
Those M1s were probably rackers or field grade at best, so we're breaking even at least.

Probably correct, but some of the M1s from about 1960 were those imported from the UK - these were early (300,000-500,000 range) M1s with all correct/original parts! These sell in the $2500-4000 range today!

bd1
10-25-2011, 10:33 AM
The virtue to my mind in owning a K98k or two was when ammo was real cheap and we could shoot them for practice. IMHO Mitchell's is too high for a shooter. He's not putting anything out there that would appeal to Nazi-era Mauser collectors. He's a marketer, a retailer. Long as you understand that going in, spend your $$$ as you wish.

old ironside
10-25-2011, 10:59 AM
while mitchells are redone and collector value erased, eventually they too will go up as good 98ks become harder to find. next time a WW2 movie is released folks will once again clamor for them.

I have one just to say I have one. I also have a RC as well as a bring back and a Miltech too. One for each child to shoot or sell when they get older. I imagine some of my children will want pretty and some will want rough looking. I will let them choose.

RazorBurn
10-25-2011, 12:38 PM
Well, since we're on the topic of K98's. A local pawn shop has a sporterized K98 that has had the stock cut down on the front & rear. The receiver has not been drilled or tapped. It looks like it's probably been a bring back at some point in it's life. The receiver bolt and stock band numbers all matched, the safety did not. Didn't see a serial number on the barrel and wasn't 100% sure were to look other than the normal places. The blue's probably 60%. It's missing the front sight hood and rod. If I remember right it was Byf44. It had quite a few Waffenmarks on it. They had $229 on it. I half thought about tossing out $125 on it for a winter project, but figured the wife would kill me if I came home with another gun.

nmckenzie
10-25-2011, 01:44 PM
A tip on getting a new acquisition past the gate guard (wife). The more arms you've already got in your gun cabinet, man cave, or whatever, the better, because just one more isn't as noticeable. About twenty years ago a buddy of mine dropped by our house and asked if he could take a look at some particular rifle (can't remember which) I had in the gun cabinet. Sure, no problem. He then removes a tape measure from his pocket, notes various dimensions, scribbles them down on a piece of paper, thanks me as he hands the rifle back and leaves. Figured he'd eventually tell me what this was all about. What he'd done was go home, make a cardboard cutout approximating the size of the rifle, stuffed it in a soft gun case, along with some crumpled newspaper padding, walked right past the gate guard with the explanation he was taking the rifle to the shop to have the (name a part) adjusted. He then went to the local gun shop and bought the rifle he was interested in, ditched the cardboard and newspaper padding, slid the rifle into the case and walked it into the house.

RazorBurn
10-25-2011, 01:48 PM
A tip on getting a new acquisition past the gate guard (wife). The more arms you've already got in your gun cabinet, man cave, or whatever, the better, because just one more isn't as noticeable. About twenty years ago a buddy of mine dropped by our house and asked if he could take a look at some particular rifle (can't remember which) I had in the gun cabinet. Sure, no problem. He then removes a tape measure from his pocket, notes various dimensions, scribbles them down on a piece of paper, thanks me as he hands the rifle back and leaves. Figured he'd eventually tell me what this was all about. What he'd done was go home, make a cardboard cutout approximating the size of the rifle, stuffed it in a soft gun case, along with some crumpled newspaper padding, walked right past the gate guard with the explanation he was taking the rifle to the shop to have the (name a part) adjusted. He then went to the local gun shop and bought the rifle he was interested in, ditched the cardboard and newspaper padding, slid the rifle into the case and walked it into the house.

Sounds like Nikki Sixx back in the day visiting a guitar store. :D

My gate guard seems to have lost count but I think she's just playing me as she has the memory of an elephant. Her memory seems especially keen when my best friend is over and we're checking out the guns and she'll come out from the cheap seats with a "hey, what's that, I don't recognize that one". :cool:

nmckenzie
10-25-2011, 02:14 PM
I'm fortunate in that the lady of the house is a shooter, and is understanding when a new firearm just happens to follow me home. There's occasionally a quid-pro-quo comment (as in "hey did you see that neat (name an item) in this or that catalog), but that usually only happens when something fairly expensive follows me home - and she knows what's what in the wonderful world of firearms. She totes a .41 magnum SA when we go berry picking (big bears in these parts), hunts with a .308 Browning, and I love her dearly.

7.62x63mmUS
10-25-2011, 07:08 PM
I'd like to see what their "Souvenir Grade" K98s look like. I have at one time or another considered getting a Mitchell's K98 just for a shooter. There is at least some comfort for many of us knowing we are getting a rifle that is shootable and safe, even it is fake cosmetically.

old ironside
10-25-2011, 07:41 PM
I'd like to see what their "Souvenir Grade" K98s look like. I have at one time or another considered getting a Mitchell's K98 just for a shooter. There is at least some comfort for many of us knowing we are getting a rifle that is shootable and safe, even it is fake cosmetically.

probably worth it. They shoot fine and you never know with a "real" one if it will headspace, or has an unknown crack or something else. You even get a certificate to make you feel special saying it is an authentic Mitchell.

Rick the Librarian
10-25-2011, 08:49 PM
A tip on getting a new acquisition past the gate guard (wife). The more arms you've already got in your gun cabinet, man cave, or whatever, the better, because just one more isn't as noticeable. About twenty years ago a buddy of mine dropped by our house and asked if he could take a look at some particular rifle (can't remember which) I had in the gun cabinet. Sure, no problem. He then removes a tape measure from his pocket, notes various dimensions, scribbles them down on a piece of paper, thanks me as he hands the rifle back and leaves. Figured he'd eventually tell me what this was all about. What he'd done was go home, make a cardboard cutout approximating the size of the rifle, stuffed it in a soft gun case, along with some crumpled newspaper padding, walked right past the gate guard with the explanation he was taking the rifle to the shop to have the (name a part) adjusted. He then went to the local gun shop and bought the rifle he was interested in, ditched the cardboard and newspaper padding, slid the rifle into the case and walked it into the house.

For more on the subject of "Gunrunning" read the story of the same name by Patrick McManus in his book The Grasshopper Trap. Hilarious!! (And not all that far from the truth, either!! :D

nmckenzie
10-25-2011, 09:12 PM
My better half knows McManus from her years back in Idaho, and can pretty much match up actual people with the characters in his books (including my favorite, Rancid Crabtree).

reelguy
10-25-2011, 09:34 PM
I love Rancid, and Pat's pencil wife "Bun"!!!

My better half knows McManus from her years back in Idaho, and can pretty much match up actual people with the characters in his books (including my favorite, Rancid Crabtree).

Rick the Librarian
10-26-2011, 09:34 AM
I had a chance to meet him a couple of times. Very interesting speaker, too. I have ALL of his books!

Eli552
10-28-2011, 07:38 PM
Jeeze, Im glad I decided to ask instead of throwing away that kind of money for one of those, Thanks to all that replied. Saved me some money to put toward the CMP goodies.:GS:

Rick the Librarian
10-28-2011, 09:00 PM
Not to mention getting "educated" about Miltech, old time gun ads and author Patrick McManus!! (and Rancid Crabtree!!) :D

Eli552
10-28-2011, 09:05 PM
Not to mention getting "educated" about Miltech, old time gun ads and author Patrick McManus!! (and Rancid Crabtree!!) :D

Yes, Yes, Cant forget about ole crabtree and miltech. Once again, Thanks guys. Big help from all. :GS::GS:

USMC 00-08
10-29-2011, 06:29 PM
I am sure I may get crucified here but.......A friend of mine just ordered a Mitchell's K98k and I saw it for the first time today. It is the souvenier grade for $399.

It had none of the Russian capture markings or the * to conceal one, several Nazi markings and no sign of being scrubbed or new stamps applied. Some of the numbers were matching, some were not.

The stock had been sanded and no markings on it except for a number matching the S/N.

Overall the rifle looked great including the bore. Plenty of barrel life left and headspace was fine. (I checked it with Forster gages.)

My friend only wanted a nice looking shooter and did not care really if it was correct. I was impressed with the rifle and it looked better than any of the RC's that I have seen lately. Around here, a rough RC is going for $499 plus. For $399, I personally think it is worth it and may order one for myself at some point. I have pictures of the rifle and can send them to you if you PM me your e-mail. Sorry I don't know how to post pics on this site.

Milsurp Collector
10-29-2011, 09:24 PM
It had none of the Russian capture markings or the * to conceal one, several Nazi markings and no sign of being scrubbed or new stamps applied. Some of the numbers were matching, some were not.

The stock had been sanded and no markings on it except for a number matching the S/N.



The number stamped on the left side of the buttstock is a Russian Capture marking. The Germans never stamped the stock there, only Soviets and Yugoslavians did (Soviets stamped numbers horizontally, Yugos stamped numbers vertically).

With a RC, the receiver, barrel, and front sight blade will usually have matching numbers.

Ironically, the "Souvenir" grade might preferable to the "Collector" or "Premium" grade, because it has been less Mitchellized and costs the least.

I still think one of these is a better deal http://www.allans-armory.com/aaresult.php?PageId=45 but as long as you know what you are buying it is your money.

Sorry I don't know how to post pics on this site.

See http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=660

lapriester
10-30-2011, 03:11 AM
My Mitchell's M48A is the prettiest Yugoslavian, non German, short Mauser I own. I paid too much (before I knew better...it was my first milsurp rifle), it was never advertised as a German Mauser (not even in the small print or by reasonable assumption), it came with a bunch of useless accessories which collect a lot of dust, it took me a week to get all the cosmo off of it and is a very accurate shooter.

If I bought it today I would have to pay more than I did then so I can't really complain much. It IS a very pretty rifle...I'll give it that...but, I think the M48BO I bought later from a private seller, that has no import mark, for half what I paid for the 48A is probably a more valuable rifle but just isn't as pimped up.

Larry

ceresco
10-30-2011, 12:52 PM
I flew to the Western Games, borrowed my friends Mitchell K98 Mauser, put my 6:00 front sling swivel on it, shot his Wolf Gold ammo and while I didn't win the Vintage match--I had the prettiest rifle. It functioned 100% and with some bedding adjustments, handloads and more experience with it, could have been competitve. I've seen (through) the hyped ads for years but fact is: purchased at a discounted $400--it's not too bad. Good Shooting.......

Milsurp Collector
10-30-2011, 02:41 PM
The Yugoslavian M48 is an very good rifle. It is a good choice for someone who wants a 7.92x57 Mauser. However, it is not a K98k, nor German in any way, nor a World War II rifle.

Unlike the K98k and other large-ring Mauser, the M48 uses an intermediate-length action (http://www.hoosiergunworks.com/catalog/mauser_reference.html). It is 8.5" long with a screw spacing of 7.62". The K98k and most other large-ring Mausers have an action length of 8.75" and screw spacing of 7.835". Because of this, K98k and M48 bolts, triggerguards, and stocks are not interchangeable.

The Yugoslavians did not obtain tooling or machinery from Germany. It came from FN in Belgium, who made the intermediate-length action M1924 Mauser rifles. FN supplied rifles and machinery to Yugoslavia until the Yugos were able to start up their own production.

M48 rifles were made from 1951 to 1957, not during World War II. The 1943 date on the Yugoslavian crest stamped on the receiver ring refers to the date that Tito, leader of the Communist Yugo Partisans, announced that the Anti-Fascist Council of the People's Liberation of Yugoslavia would be the new government of Yugoslavia (after the Nazis were defeated of course).

http://home.comcast.net/~freddyboomboom/m48b_crest.png

With that in mind, let's look at this Mitchell's Mauser ad from the July 2003 issue of American Rifleman:

http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt337/milsurp_collector/Mitchell%20Mauser%20Ads/81101a9a.jpg

What's the first thing it says: "Mauser 98K Rifle".
Well, that's not correct. They are trying to attract the interest of (inexperienced) customers looking for Nazi K98k rifles.

"Produced with German technology and precision on German tooling set up in occupied Serbia".
The Germans were not involved in any way with M48 production. The tooling was Belgian and the rifles were made after World War II, when Yugoslavia was no longer occupied (Serbia did not exist as an independent state at that time).

"The crest on the receiver is dated 1943".
Well, that's true, but so what. That's when the Communist Yugoslavian partisans had a meeting, not when the rifles were built. But it is intentionally misleading for those who don't know the details.

"Preserved since WWII, this last supply of Quality WWII Mausers..."
M48s were made in the 1950s, after World War II. Again trying to mislead customers into thinking these are "WWII 98k" Mausers.

"Typical German Mauser Strength and Reliability..."
Notice that "German" is used three times in this ad, "Serbia" is used once, and "Yugoslavian" is not used at all.

"This is your Last Chance.."
One thing that hasn't changed over the years is Mitchell saying that this is your "last chance" to buy his rifles, so you better get that credit card out right now!

Here is an ad from the March 2005 issue of American Rifleman:

http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt337/milsurp_collector/Mitchell%20Mauser%20Ads/0bccaee1.jpg

"Mauser 98k" it isn't.

Many of the same phrases in the previous ad are used. In addition

"An Original Mauser Rifle that escaped the war..."
Well, it was pretty easy for the rifles to "escape the war" if they were made after World War II.

"Do Not Wait Too Long! The world supply of original Mausers is coming to an end. Soon, only used battlefield pickups and bastardized, reworked rifles with mixed parts will remain."
Oh no! A used, original, all-matching, vet-bringback "battlefield pickup" K98k! Who would want something like that?! :rolleyes:

Funny how Mitchell is now spending heavily to proudly advertise his Russian Capture (RC) K98k's, which are in fact "bastardized, reworked rifles with mixed parts" to use his words.

After Mitchell started getting his hands on Russian Capture (RC) real K98k's he stopped pushing the M48s as much, although his K98k advertising is also misleading and deceptive in my opinion. But at least they are K98k rifles, not M48s being sold as "Mauser 98K" rifles. To repeat, the M48 is a fine rifle, and it deserves to be sold honestly.

Can Mitchell's Mausers be good shooters? Sure. So can other Mausers sold honestly and for less money. Are the M48s in good condition ("pretty")? Sure. So are the ones available for less elsewhere. Are Mitchell's ex-Russian Capture K98k's "pretty"? As I said, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. To me they are so "Mitchellized" they look artificial compared to an original K98k, but to each his own. Should you give your money to a company that uses misleading advertising to deceive less-experienced customers, rather than supporting honest vendors who have similar products for less money? Your money, your choice.

nmckenzie
10-30-2011, 06:55 PM
Reading through some of Mitchell's ads I'm amazed by the tap-dancing and almost-but-not-quite "facts". As to the M48s being manufactured on German machinery in occupied Serbia. Well, if you really wanted to s-t-r-e-t-c-h the facts, I suppose you could try to make those cases. As Milsurp Collector has informed us, M48s were manufactured on imported Belgian machinery. My bring-back 243/1940 sports an FN proof-mark over the chamber area below the wood line, so it obviously was rebarreled, or at least reproofed, using what would've been Belgian machinery under German control. Does that make it German machinery? Yeah, I know, it all depends on what your definition of the word IS is. Though his advertising is nothing but clever word twisting, the RCs and M48s are good looking rifles, albeit horrendously overpriced. As to the M48 being manufactured in occupied Serbia; well, occupied by whom he doesn't say - or if he did I missed it, and I guess someone could try making the case that the geographical area where the rifles were manufactured was at one time called Serbia, then Yugoslavia, and now is Serbia once again. Argh!

Milsurp Collector
10-30-2011, 07:11 PM
My bring-back 243/1940 sports an FN proof-mark over the chamber area below the wood line, so it obviously was rebarreled, or at least reproofed, using what would've been Belgian machinery under German control.

After the Nazis occupied Belgium they used the FN factory to make six types of parts for the K98k, including almost 1.5 million bolts and 500,000 barrels.

nmckenzie
10-30-2011, 07:19 PM
Never knew that. Great info. Many thanks for posting!