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View Full Version : What's up with the "no paypal"


BigBuckeye
12-26-2011, 07:03 AM
Why are so many on here averse to using Paypal? Is there something I don't know? Drives me crazy when I want to buy something and have to go down to the damn post office to get a money order.. I have always used Paypal without incident...so what's up?

Orlando
12-26-2011, 07:10 AM
PayPal is anti gun,if someone mentions firearms in the payment descrpition your account can be frozen

BigBuckeye
12-26-2011, 07:19 AM
Obviously you don't have to say in the description that it is gun related....

fitch
12-26-2011, 07:21 AM
Not to mention the $0.30 + 2.9% fee Paypal charges the seller for the transaction.

Orlando
12-26-2011, 07:24 AM
Obviously you don't have to say in the description that it is gun related....

Obviously, but would I want to take a chance on the buyer putting "firearms" in the descrition and having my account frozen and I couldnt get my money out becuase of his negligance???
I have heard to many seller PayPal horror stories for me to use it

HughUno
12-26-2011, 07:26 AM
for ebay stuff, fee is not unreasonable (3.2% for seller), security is very high, and it is convenient. Also nice to have it tied to your checking account in case you don't have any funds in the account and need something someone is selling online.

In the airguns forums/community, you are (almost) SOL without paypal as this is the expectation on both sides.

not a good choice at all for real guns or ammo, at least for higher dollar items, even if both sides have enough sense not to mention "guns" etc.

But, for most normal people, dropping by the post office on the way to or from work to purchase a MO isn't nearly that "damn" inconvenient, nor something likely to drive us "crazy."

HOW one buys something is not nearly as important as WHAT you buy and from WHOM buying.

buckshot85
12-26-2011, 08:02 AM
if you have bought from alot of these guys before some will take personnal checks. i do the same. it's all about honoring your I'LL TAKE IT" if you buy something from these guys and you don't jack anyone around on the payment. i have not had any problems. until i do, i will trust the guys i have dealt with or the ones with alot of positive feedback.

Blockhead
12-26-2011, 08:06 AM
A CMP forum screwed up and permanently closed my PayPal account of over 15 years.

tbob38
12-26-2011, 08:15 AM
A CMP forum screwed up and permanently closed my PayPal account of over 15 years.

What? Tell me more.

fat old married guy
12-26-2011, 08:19 AM
if you have bought from alot of these guys before some will take personnal checks. i do the same. it's all about honoring your I'LL TAKE IT" if you buy something from these guys and you don't jack anyone around on the payment. i have not had any problems. until i do, i will trust the guys i have dealt with or the ones with alot of positive feedback.



If you have bought from a lot of guys before some will take personal checks. I do the same. It's all about honoring your " I'll take it " if you buy something from these guys and you don't " jack " anyone around on payment. I have not had any problems. Until I do, I will trust the guys I have dealt with or the ones with a lot of positive feedback.:)

dhuze
12-26-2011, 08:28 AM
Obviously you don't have to say in the description that it is gun related....

I'm one who had their account closed because someone else had to mention everything that paypal hated in their description. I assume his account was also closed. This was over 5 years ago. Why support some company who does not believe in your rights? Going to the PO is not that big of a problem for me. I liked the ease of paypal, but I will not do business with them again.

Blockhead
12-26-2011, 08:28 AM
What? Tell me more.

Sold him an M2 Flash hider for an M1D. He chose to put that info very prominently in the transaction details and they closed my account. Their policy prohibits its use from "suppressors" and in their minds a flash hider=suppressor. I have talked to them many times over the phone and via email and they really don't care about distinctions between the two. I used to sell on ebay quite a bit, but haven't since paypal is a nogo. Subsequent accounts I have tired to open have a very short shelf life.

tbob38
12-26-2011, 09:01 AM
Very interesting. We have a friend who works for ebay and he would leave soonest if he could get another job.

bd1
12-26-2011, 09:09 AM
Best thing could happen to e-pay and pay-pal would be for everybody to walk on 'em and they go under. Forget it.

bob moore
12-26-2011, 09:17 AM
Paypals main problem is(besides they are against guns), is that no one else does what they do. When you have a monopoly, you can do what you what.

Vos Parate
12-26-2011, 09:18 AM
PayPal is anti-gun. IMHO, if you support PayPal, you are a part of the problem.

Same as being a supporter of the 2A and then voting for a presidential candidate that will do everything in his power to erode those rights.

Do the math.

Blockhead
12-26-2011, 09:31 AM
Is paypal really anti-gun? Do they go out of their way to limit gun-related freedoms, or are they just a private business that chooses to not get involved with guns? I have only seen evidence of the latter and would like proof of the former if it exists.

wgandy
12-26-2011, 09:32 AM
As a buyer, I'll be hanged before I knowingly help line the pockets of anti-gun liberals. I stopped buying off Ebay years ago when they restriced gun sales. I will not buy from someone that requires pay-pal.

If I can't get it from GB or AA and pay via a cashiers check, MO or personal check then I don't buy it. I'll stand in the line at the PO or bank if that takes money away from anti-gun liberals.

JMHO
-wg

wgandy
12-26-2011, 09:34 AM
Is paypal really anti-gun? Do they go out of their way to limit gun-related freedoms, or are they just a private business that chooses to not get involved with guns? I have only seen evidence of the latter and would like proof of the former if it exists.


Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Pay-pal is owned by EBAY. Nuff said.

-wg

Blockhead
12-26-2011, 09:45 AM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Pay-pal is owned by EBAY. Nuff said.

-wg

Then apply my question to Ebay as well: Are they really anti-gun, or just a private business that chooses not to get involved with some aspects of the firearms industry? To me, it sounds like a simple, albeit annoying for us who buy and sell guns, business choice to limit liability, and not a bleeding heart liberal plot. Do we boycott Lowes, Chilis, or JC Penneys because they don't carry ammo? I know that's hyperbole, but I think it makes my point that private businesses can do what they want. Unless Ebay is lobbying politicians to limit my gun freedoms then I really don't mind that they choose not to be the middleman for my gun sales/purchases.

steelap
12-26-2011, 09:51 AM
Unless Ebay is lobbying politicians to limit my gun freedoms then I really don't mind that they choose not to be the middleman for my gun sales/purchases.

How dare you favor freedom of choice for people and opinions with which we don't agree! :mad:

You, you, you, LIBERAL, you!

:D

"Life is Good!"

m1garand1055
12-26-2011, 10:05 AM
I used to sale and buy off of ebay all the time , until they started that PayPal Sh-T. If you can't do a transistion between you and the party your dealing with through a Money order or Personal check, then I don't want nothing to do with it. I don't need some idiot deciding that I'm saling a gun part that he thinks in his own mind is illegal, so he decides to freeze my Paypal account. Then I have a hard time trying get my money!!!!Their Anti Gun all the way!!!!They can keep E-bay, I'll just deal with people person to person from now on or on the CMP Forum!!!!!:D

Orlando
12-26-2011, 10:14 AM
I used to sale and buy off of ebay all the time , until they started that PayPal Sh-T. If you can't do a transistion between you and the party your dealing with through a Money order or Personal check, then I don't want nothing to do with it. I don't need some idiot deciding that I'm saling a gun part that he thinks in his own mind is illegal, so he decides to freeze my Paypal account. Then I have a hard time trying get my money!!!!Their Anti Gun all the way!!!!They can keep E-bay, I'll just deal with people person to person from now on or on the CMP Forum!!!!!:D

Exactly

HughUno
12-26-2011, 10:15 AM
Is paypal really anti-gun? Do they go out of their way to limit gun-related freedoms, or are they just a private business that chooses to not get involved with guns? I have only seen evidence of the latter and would like proof of the former if it exists.

yes.

when ebay started, it was very libertarian. sell anything you like, guns, ammo etc. (leaving it to users to police themselves).

Then Al Gore personally asked them to shut down the guns etc.

Progressively, less gun and gun-related parts allowed (believe me, it was good while it lasted!).

Former CEO, Meg Whitman, fake republican, HUGE anti-gun person.

http://articles.sfgate.com/2009-02-13/bay-area/17190174_1_sen-john-mccain-abortion-rights-budget-gap

HenryPatrick
12-26-2011, 10:20 AM
I see your point with paypal, but isnt the post office anti gun too? I never understood postal money order only. I would rather have a bank cashiers check which is guarnteed and doesnt cost anything.

McGuy
12-26-2011, 10:32 AM
None of it is really guaranteed. Fake money orders, fake cashiers checks, even fake Paypal verifications.

wgandy
12-26-2011, 10:34 AM
Then apply my question to Ebay as well: Are they really anti-gun, ..........................

In my Opinion - Yes. Go back and look at the reasoning they gave to stop selling firearms. It was to "protect" their customers and the public from harm. (Not their exact words but the jest of their press release IIRC.) Funny but I beleive they continute to sell items that are involved with the deaths of many more people than firearms each year. I beleive they still sell auto's and hard liquor for example. Why just pick firearms to stop selling??? Because they are anti-gun.

Do we boycott Lowes, Chilis, or JC Penneys because they don't carry ammo?..............
Hardware stores, restaurants, and clothiers selling ammo???? Apples and Oranges. Not even in the same arguement ballpark.

Do they, as a business, have the right to do it? I never said they didn't. That is not in question. What is in question is whether they are pro gun or anti gun. Evidence in my mind is that they are anti gun.

Just as they have the right to not sell firearms.....I also have the right to take my business elsewhere and not support them.


Isn't this country a great one! You have the right to your opinion and I to mine. Freedom, it's a wonderful thing. You keep voicing your opinion and I will mine. That's what our country was founded on.

Blockhead
12-26-2011, 10:50 AM
I know lots of people who don't sell/buy/own guns. I wouldn't call them pro-gun, but not anti-gun either. In my mind, to be anti-whatever means you are working against it. Just by choosing not to broker firearms transactions doesn't make them gun-hating loons. I still don't understand why ebay/paypal gets as much bitter vitriol on gun boards as REAL anti-gun organizations like the Brady folks, etc.

lapriester
12-26-2011, 10:58 AM
I see your point with paypal, but isnt the post office anti gun too? I never understood postal money order only. I would rather have a bank cashiers check which is guarnteed and doesnt cost anything.

Post Office anti-gun? You can still mail any long gun USPS to anywhere. Just not handguns. You could even call UPS anti-gun, I suppose, if you consider they demand their highest overnight rate to ship handguns. Me, I use and accept PayPal. Any revolt by gun or ammo buyers and sellers sure hasn't effected their business. In fact it grows more every day. It's harder to find somewhere that doesn't accept it these days than those who don't. It's handy, quick and you don't have to wait a week for the USPS to deliver the payment to get something shipped to you the same day. All the, "I don't deal with them because they don't like guns" BS makes me laugh every time I see it. If you didn't deal with anyone that didn't like guns you'd starve or have to be a hermit. I'll take my payments instantly and, besides, the boss never looks in my account so payments made there are easier for me to spend later without all the static:)

You'd be amazed at how many people that "hate" PayPal still have and use a PayPal account to do business. It's just too convenient.

Larry

wgandy
12-26-2011, 11:12 AM
Let's say Ebay stops selling clothing articles that contain fur and Meg Whitman says she is for restricting the sale of clothing items with fur. Is she anti fur or just making a non-related business decision?

Iggy
12-26-2011, 11:13 AM
Putting the Pay Pal argument aside for a moment, I have always assumed the reason most wanted a Postal Money Order, or the reason one would want to send a Postal Money Order has to do with protections provided for mail fraud. I my self like to use bank money orders, but understand why the receiver wants a postal money order.

I have never opend a Pay Pal account, but it has nothing to do with pro-gun vrs anti-gun, if my check or money order was not enough, then I will do business elswhere. I have had excellent results buying and selling on this forum and find a lot of trust between the members. If I have a part or firearm to sell, or need to purchase, I look here first. I have taken everyone at their word and have yet to be disapointed, even when I was a new member.

Since most of my firearms transactions are done in cash, getting a money order is not a big deal.

Tom

captaincalc
12-26-2011, 11:16 AM
just cause they use Brady talking points to rationalize the no guns policy doesn't make them anti gun?? Yeesh. And, La, I don't paypal - they just seem too control freakish for my tastes. No big deal, really. Wish there was a reasonable alternative. Ebay used to allow for alternative payment form in the pre-paypal days. Now: little or no choice. Find humor in it, paypal has junked me around and I see no need to beg them to let me pay them to spend my money. Their crapping on me drove me out. Other credit cards are convenient too, y'know. And, there are plenty of pro-gun business folk out there. The PP guys go over the top, so I hear, in their gun part controls.

Vos Parate
12-26-2011, 11:56 AM
Putting the Pay Pal argument aside for a moment, I have always assumed the reason most wanted a Postal Money Order, or the reason one would want to send a Postal Money Order has to do with protections provided for mail fraud. I my self like to use bank money orders, but understand why the receiver wants a postal money order.

I have never opend a Pay Pal account, but it has nothing to do with pro-gun vrs anti-gun, if my check or money order was not enough, then I will do business elswhere. I have had excellent results buying and selling on this forum and find a lot of trust between the members. If I have a part or firearm to sell, or need to purchase, I look here first. I have taken everyone at their word and have yet to be disapointed, even when I was a new member.

Since most of my firearms transactions are done in cash, getting a money order is not a big deal.

Tom

I got hosed on an Ebay transaction that I paid with a USPS MO. Neither Ebay or the USPS would do anything.

HenryPatrick
12-26-2011, 12:25 PM
Well to respond about the post office, the ones I go to kind of throw a fit. They ask wierd questions like Is it loaded? Did you take it apart? Did you remove the firing pin? seriously been asked those. As for the ups stores they wont accept firearms you have to take them to the main office. So I use fedex now.

lapriester
12-26-2011, 12:38 PM
Never been asked any question except whether it was loaded. Why? Because it's not legal to mail ammunition. Nope, UPS stores won't take em'. But their not really UPS anyway. Private franchises affiliated somewhat with UPS.

Larry

Well to respond about the post office, the ones I go to kind of throw a fit. They ask wierd questions like Is it loaded? Did you take it apart? Did you remove the firing pin? seriously been asked those. As for the ups stores they wont accept firearms you have to take them to the main office. So I use fedex now.

JohnF
12-26-2011, 01:25 PM
Well to respond about the post office, the ones I go to kind of throw a fit. They ask wierd questions like Is it loaded? Did you take it apart? Did you remove the firing pin? seriously been asked those. As for the ups stores they wont accept firearms you have to take them to the main office. So I use fedex now.

The USPS will and should only ask if it's unloaded per the Domestic Mail Manual. No other questions are required once you declare it is unloaded in writing, that is if you don't open the box. I always had a small form made up and signed that the firearm was unloaded and eligible for mailing to hand them should they ask, saves on conversation.


12.2Rifles and Shotguns

Except under 12.1.1d and 12.1.2, unloaded rifles and shot­guns are mailable. Mailers must comply with the rules and regulations under 27 CFR, Part 478, as well as state and local laws. The mailer may be required by the USPS to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the rifle or shotgun is unloaded and not ineligible for mailing under 12.1.1d.

easyv
12-26-2011, 02:09 PM
Putting the Pay Pal argument aside for a moment, I have always assumed the reason most wanted a Postal Money Order, or the reason one would want to send a Postal Money Order has to do with protections provided for mail fraud.


What protection? Like having to wait 6 months until reporting one lost? For a buyer, M.O.'s have no protection. Seller could have received and cashed it, and told you he never received it. And then you have to wait 6 months before the PO will even tell you if it was cashed.

003402
12-26-2011, 02:18 PM
Understand the concerns about paypal, etc and putting those aside, what is the best means of payment for a non-face to face transaction? safest for both buyer and seller? I have seen some sites (like arms list.org) that recommend not sending M.O.s etc.

What have people had best experience with? I am new to the selling side.

Milsurp Collector
12-26-2011, 02:19 PM
Is paypal really anti-gun? Do they go out of their way to limit gun-related freedoms, or are they just a private business that chooses to not get involved with guns? I have only seen evidence of the latter and would like proof of the former if it exists.

I think their lawyers told them to avoid allowing their service to be used in the transactions for certain items because of possible liability or public relations issues.

Prohibited Activities

You may not use the PayPal service for activities that:

violate any law, statute, ordinance or regulation.

relate to transactions involving (a) narcotics, steroids, certain controlled substances or other products that present a risk to consumer safety, (b) drug paraphernalia, (c) items that encourage, promote, facilitate or instruct others to engage in illegal activity, (d) stolen goods including digital and virtual goods (e) items that promote hate, violence, racial intolerance, or the financial exploitation of a crime, (f) items that are considered obscene, (g) items that infringe or violate any copyright, trademark, right of publicity or privacy or any other proprietary right under the laws of any jurisdiction, (h) certain sexually oriented materials or services, (i) ammunition, firearms, or certain firearm parts or accessories, or (j) ,certain weapons or knives regulated under applicable law.

https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=ua/AcceptableUse_full

DaveHH
12-26-2011, 02:30 PM
They are judgmental about a lot of things. My main beef with them is that they do absolutely nothing about the fraud that is perpetrated in their name. They could care less. They say "it's between the seller and buyer, not us" and then step in and tell you what you can and cannot sell. They also hide behind their stupid firewalls. Safe Harbor? Really? Can't find anyone to discuss the problem. I hate everything about a company that is wildly successful and essentially casts the customer off to drift. Pay pal is convenient, but I don't like those a$$holes being anywhere near my bank accounts.

Meg Whitman? An ugly, stupid loser with a chip on her shoulder. She could set herself on fire and I wouldn't watch. Her opinions on anything are as valid as my cat's.

bd1
12-26-2011, 03:09 PM
I don't want ANYBODY with electronic money-manipulation capability near my money unless I get a hard-copy paper receipt for the transaction and they've been there long enough to give me confidence they'll be there tomorrow and stand good for a glitch. I don't even file taxes online. What was "Stratfor", supposedly a security consulting company, doing with the ID info of 90,000 credit card holders and their account #'s on its web server? I don't trust any of these people. This stuff is too easily collected, bought, and sold to parties who just want to sell you something or steal from you.

microwaveguy
12-26-2011, 03:15 PM
If memory serves me correctly the VA shooter a few years ago bought some of his mags off of EBAY. This is what really pushed them over the edge to the ANTI's. I personally think it was the slightest threat of a lawsuit that drove all of this. Many employers are the same way where anything firearm related is banned from company property including filtering the company internet.

captain-03
12-26-2011, 03:27 PM
I am one that had their account frozen about 5-6 years ago -- more than $6,000 just stitting there and I could not access it. Had sold some AR magazines and buyer made reference to it in the transaction details ... what was the most frustrating part was the inability to TALK with someone at PayPal. They have ZERO customer service ... Took well over 30 days to get my money and I think the threat of me getting my attorney involved was the reason they acted. I promptly closed the account and I WILL NEVER USE THEM AGAIN!!

Orlando
12-26-2011, 03:42 PM
I am one that had their account frozen about 5-6 years ago -- more than $6,000 just stitting there and I could not access it. Had sold some AR magazines and buyer made reference to it in the transaction details ... what was the most frustrating part was the inability to TALK with someone at PayPal. They have ZERO customer service ... Took well over 30 days to get my money and I think the threat of me getting my attorney involved was the reason they acted. I promptly closed the account and I WILL NEVER USE THEM AGAIN!!


This is exactly why I dont accept PayPal as payment
I simply cant afford to have my money tied up to where I cant get it

abeal
12-26-2011, 03:58 PM
One of these days someone in Congress will wake up and start treating paypal as a monopoly and things will change. Need to get the NRA lawyers on their case.

The fact is there is no better method to pay sellers in other countries. Most of the foreign sellers on gunbroker use paypal to take payment from US buyers. I had one guy in Finland tell me paypal shutdown one of his accounts but then the other day when I bought items from another Finnish seller, he used paypal invoicing with the gunbroker item numbers in the transactions. Uugh. Maybe he has not had problems with paypal and it is just a matter of time.

dontknowdiddly
12-26-2011, 04:15 PM
They are judgmental about a lot of things. My main beef with them is that they do absolutely nothing about the fraud that is perpetrated in their name. They could care less. They say "it's between the seller and buyer, not us" and then step in and tell you what you can and cannot sell. They also hide behind their stupid firewalls. Safe Harbor? Really? Can't find anyone to discuss the problem. I hate everything about a company that is wildly successful and essentially casts the customer off to drift. Pay pal is convenient, but I don't like those a$$holes being anywhere near my bank accounts.

Meg Whitman? An ugly, stupid loser with a chip on her shoulder. She could set herself on fire and I wouldn't watch. Her opinions on anything are as valid as my cat's.

I like cats. I don't believe you said that, and I hope your cat ********es on the carpet.

joondog
12-26-2011, 04:39 PM
i got banned for life, sold a rifle and the buyer put gunbroker and mauser in desciption.

J.R.2009
12-26-2011, 04:40 PM
I've looked at this thread a few times, since it seems to keep going and going and going.

My question is just this, what the hell is wrong with my check ?? I have ALWAYS, in my sales here and else where, said I'd take an USPS MO OR a personal check. I have done that in 99% of the sales I have made here and on GB. The largest check I took was $650 from the great state of Alaska for some original G.I. M1 Garand tools on GB. I did have the bank, mine, check the check to see it was OK. It is a Federal Credit Union. Took less than a day and the items went out that same day. Maybe "Banks" don't have this service.

I use PayPal ONLY if it is the last resort. If you don't want MY $, don't take a MO, CC or my check. OK by me.

Kansas Poster
12-26-2011, 05:02 PM
Cash works fine for me.

Personal check is also great, but the seller has to go to their bank to deposit.

Never had a bad transaction on this forum. Look at the posts, and look at the feedback. Tells a lot about the person.

Most of my transactions get in the mail before the money gets there.

Let us keep it that way.:GS:

harleybob
12-26-2011, 06:14 PM
PayPal numba 10, G.I.

Mark1
12-26-2011, 06:36 PM
The other side is Ebay is the worlds largest site that sells porn. (anything related to it). And you can also purchase all of the components needed to build a meth lab except for the pills.
God forbid some sells a 7 round magazine or firing pin but everything else is fair game.

Roadkingtrax
12-26-2011, 06:38 PM
Meth and Porn don't mix....

BigBuckeye
12-26-2011, 07:15 PM
I see your point with paypal, but isnt the post office anti gun too? I never understood postal money order only. I would rather have a bank cashiers check which is guarnteed and doesnt cost anything.

That's what I was thinking....a friend of my parents just had a hell of a time trying to ship a gun through the post office..

fat old married guy
12-26-2011, 07:19 PM
Meth and Porn don't mix....

Yeah, well, It's gotten me by this past 20 years.:eek: lol

Orlando
12-26-2011, 07:26 PM
That's what I was thinking....a friend of my parents just had a he'll of a time trying to ship a gun through the post office..

Thats the ignorance of the Postal Employees
I have shipped multiple rifles USPS with no issues

USM1
12-26-2011, 08:10 PM
Just checked ebays policy on firearm parts and it has changed. They now allow barrels, bolts, trigger assemblys, mags 10 rds or less and a bunch of other parts that were no no. Restrictions on these parts are:


"The following gun parts and accessories are allowed on the eBay US site only. The seller must be in the US and offer domestic shipping only :

En bloc clips

Barrels

Bolts

Choke tubes

Cylinders

Firing pins

Hammers

Magazines with a capacity to accept 10 rounds or less (high-capacity magazines that can accept more than 10 rounds are not allowed)

Slides

Trigger assemblies"

Click on Firearms: http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/firearms-weapons-knives.html

HughUno
12-26-2011, 08:32 PM
Just checked ebays policy on firearm parts and it has changed. They now allow barrels, bolts, trigger assemblys, mags 10 rds or less and a bunch of other parts that were no no. Restrictions on these parts are:



"The following gun parts and accessories are allowed on the eBay US site only. The seller must be in the US and offer domestic shipping only :

En bloc clips

Barrels

Bolts

Choke tubes

Cylinders

Firing pins

Hammers

Magazines with a capacity to accept 10 rounds or less (high-capacity magazines that can accept more than 10 rounds are not allowed)

Slides

Trigger assemblies"

Click on Firearms: http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/firearms-weapons-knives.html

wow, but not surprising..

30 bucks per share (vs. 60 a few years back)

Mark1
12-26-2011, 08:37 PM
I am shocked. I had no idea they updated their policy.

TLB
12-26-2011, 08:42 PM
I noticed bolts and trigger groups weren't being pulled recently. I thought they were just being missed due to the holidays. Good that the policy has changed.

Just checked ebays policy on firearm parts and it has changed. They now allow barrels, bolts, trigger assemblys, mags 10 rds or less and a bunch of other parts that were no no. Restrictions on these parts are:


"The following gun parts and accessories are allowed on the eBay US site only. The seller must be in the US and offer domestic shipping only :

En bloc clips

Barrels

Bolts

Choke tubes

Cylinders

Firing pins

Hammers

Magazines with a capacity to accept 10 rounds or less (high-capacity magazines that can accept more than 10 rounds are not allowed)

Slides

Trigger assemblies"

Click on Firearms: http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/firearms-weapons-knives.html

Rondog
12-26-2011, 08:56 PM
IMO, a transaction is between the buyer and the seller. Bringing in a third party to transfer the money between the first two, for a fee of course, is just stupid. And giving that 3rd party access to your funds and the power to freeze them? Insanity. The whole anti-gun thing is just icing on the cake. Pay-Pal can KMA. I do find cool things on eBay now and then though, but if the seller won't take a USPS MO, that's too bad.

Vandy58
12-26-2011, 09:14 PM
I still like PayPal. Just make sure you don't say any of the bad words and it goes smooth. Just purchased a march 45 garand from somebody on here, he got his money with no issue or fees and I got my gun. Easy!

thebearpack
12-26-2011, 09:40 PM
Post Office anti-gun? You can still mail any long gun USPS to anywhere. Just not handguns. You could even call UPS anti-gun, I suppose, if you consider they demand their highest overnight rate to ship handguns.

Also, if I want to buy a money order from the post office I have to make sure I am unarmed - meaning I have to leave my carry weapon at home - as I can not have it on post office property. How can anyone slam PayPal for being anti-gun and then look the other way while supporting an institution that makes honest citizens leave their legal firearms at home? I use PayPal because it's necessary; I don't love or hate them, but I think it's a bit disingenuous for someone to say they won't use PayPal because of their anti-gun policies but they will use the post office when the USPS is far worse when it comes to recognizing the right of ordinary citizens to be armed.

Me, I use and accept PayPal. Any revolt by gun or ammo buyers and sellers sure hasn't effected their business. In fact it grows more every day. It's harder to find somewhere that doesn't accept it these days than those who don't. It's handy, quick and you don't have to wait a week for the USPS to deliver the payment to get something shipped to you the same day. All the, "I don't deal with them because they don't like guns" BS makes me laugh every time I see it. If you didn't deal with anyone that didn't like guns you'd starve or have to be a hermit. I'll take my payments instantly and, besides, the boss never looks in my account so payments made there are easier for me to spend later without all the static:).

I agree 100%.

Mark1
12-26-2011, 09:46 PM
As far as carrying, you cannot carry on ANY federal property not just the post office.

thebearpack
12-26-2011, 09:48 PM
As far as carrying, you cannot carry on ANY federal property not just the post office.

I know. I just think it's funny that we're brow-beating PayPal for their policies and then willingly leaving our weapons at home to spend money at the post office. That's irony in my book.

136th TFS
12-26-2011, 09:51 PM
Probably the real reason eBay stopped going guns was the LIABILITY issue. Their lawyers most likely advised them to stop before they got sued. These liability issues can be a problem for most any product, but guns seem to attract so much attention that from a business marketing point of view it was best to stop the guns.

Blockhead
12-26-2011, 09:55 PM
Just checked ebays policy on firearm parts and it has changed. They now allow barrels, bolts, trigger assemblys, mags 10 rds or less and a bunch of other parts that were no no. Restrictions on these parts are:


"The following gun parts and accessories are allowed on the eBay US site only. The seller must be in the US and offer domestic shipping only :

En bloc clips

Barrels

Bolts

Choke tubes

Cylinders

Firing pins

Hammers

Magazines with a capacity to accept 10 rounds or less (high-capacity magazines that can accept more than 10 rounds are not allowed)

Slides

Trigger assemblies"

Click on Firearms: http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/firearms-weapons-knives.html

So now are you guys going to start calling them pro-gun? ;)

wgandy
12-26-2011, 10:54 PM
So now are you guys going to start calling them pro-gun? ;)

I'll answer your question if you will answer mine. Can you buy a rifle or pistol off of Ebay?

Your answer is my answer....:D

Fogtripper
12-26-2011, 11:50 PM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Pay-pal is owned by EBAY. Nuff said.

-wg

Yep. One in the same, and somehow they haven't had legal action taken against them for the double dipping of fees they demand. Remember when you could actually use other payment methods with ebay? Not anymore.

sigman2
12-27-2011, 12:08 AM
Why are so many on here averse to using Paypal? Is there something I don't know? Drives me crazy when I want to buy something and have to go down to the damn post office to get a money order.. I have always used Paypal without incident...so what's up?

I sold some ammo on Gun Broker. The buyer had bought stripper clips from me earlier and paid with PayPal. When I sent him the ammo invoice I told him not to use PayPal that I would accept money order, cashier's check or personal check. He sent payment via PayPal and put the Gun Broker auction number and ammo in the description. My account was closed and all funds were frozen for 6 months. They referred to the GB auction number which had no mention of PayPal. The manager said I should have refused the payment??? How can you refuse payment? All of a sudden it's in your account. You have no means of refusing it. I tried explaining this to their rep, managers, etc. and even forwarded the dated e-mail invoice I sent to my buyer. No luck... permanently banned. After 6 months they still wouldn't release my money. It took more haggling to get it released.

I was told my wife or I can never have another PayPal account and if anyone tries to use their PayPal from our IP address their account will be permanently closed. My sister who visits often is an e-bay buyer. I have to remind her not to close any transactions from my home.

Now my wife can't sell her items on e-bay. Needless to say she's not a happy camper. She even investigated the possibility of filing suit against PayPal. A law suit must be filed in Santa Clara County, California.

Check out the horror stories on this site http://paypalsucks.com/

J.R.2009
12-27-2011, 05:45 AM
Seems to me there is a simple solution. If you want to bid on an item, or buy it out right, e-mail the seller and tell him out right you will send funds in the form of a MO, check or CC. If they refuse, fine. Like I said a few posts back I only use it if the amount is less than $200 and they won't take anything else.
I have had too many friends get screwed by them and their "Bill Me Later" deal.

Amsdorf
12-27-2011, 06:07 AM
Since ebay has "lightened up" on gun parts....this means PayPal must as well.

Keymaker
12-27-2011, 06:33 AM
Just remember, if you use paypal, YOU have agreed to their rules (right or wrong), did you read the service agreement or just quickly click the mouse?

https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=ua/UserAgreement_full&locale.x=en_US


Section 10 is my favorite part, read this section and by read I mean read further than just section 10.1 :rolleyes:

Amsdorf
12-27-2011, 06:44 AM
Ebay owns PayPal...Ebay lightens up their rules on selling gun parts...ergo....PayPal can be used to pay for them.

Right?

39chevy
12-27-2011, 06:52 AM
My understanding is ebay owns paypal..several years ago they forced sellers to only accept paypal...the get a fee for listing..a fee for selling and a cut from the paypal...when they forced paypal I left..with 1300 positives and zero neg...money orders can be a drag and take people longer to pay...but that's all I do anymore

Amsdorf
12-27-2011, 06:56 AM
The major change I detest on Ebay is that sellers can NOT leave feedback on buyers. This totally stinks and puts sellers totally at the mercy of the buyers.

Bill Ricca
12-27-2011, 07:11 AM
I no longer do any business on eBay and never went with Paypal. Both organizations can go to hell.

A friend lost his Paypal account because he sold a highly collectible original 30 round carbine magazine. He no longer does either eBay or Paypal.

They have their rules, and that means do without me.

Amsdorf
12-27-2011, 07:27 AM
Tell us how you really feel, Bill.

:GS:

39chevy
12-27-2011, 07:54 AM
along the lines of going to a gun auction that charges a buyers premium..if people would stop going along with it..it would change

Shrevy
12-27-2011, 08:36 AM
I have taken personal checks for items for more than 20 years. In 90%+ of those cases, I shipped whatever was bought before even depositing a check (usually below a certain amount). I can count the number of bounced checks with one hand. In fact, I can remember only 1 and I eventually got the money. Paypal is convenient for the buyer. It is a pain for the seller in my opinion. I say this owning a small business that does a fair amount of biz through Paypal (all non-firearm). They are draconian in their treatment of sellers and ALWAYS take the buyer's side. As a seller, you are guilty until proven innocent. Our business has had far more troublesome transactions with Paypal than with personal checks. Buyers like it though. And the buyer is always right...I would much rather conduct business through Mastercard, VISA, but know that that is not an option for individuals except for Paypal.

EDIT: I should say that Paypal does provide a needed service. My complaints center around the fact that they have little competition. I think they would be a more user friendly service from a seller's perspective if there was more competition.

meplat
12-27-2011, 09:46 AM
True, but competitive alternatives like GPal won't help

:D

C Dexter
12-27-2011, 10:05 AM
I had someone pay me by Paypal for a receiver I sold several years ago before I had a chance to stop them. I had nothing to do with his actions but Paypal shut down my account anyway AND LEFT HIS ACCOUNT ACTIVE!!! I was furious but they won't even let you contact them to discuss it. You are done, screwed, period. That is why you MUST make it perfectly clear in the description that Paypal is NOT ACCEPTABLE for payment. They are Jerks and extremely anti-gun!!! Fortunately, I was at least able to get my money back out of my account.

microwaveguy
12-27-2011, 10:13 AM
My understanding is ebay owns paypal..several years ago they forced sellers to only accept paypal...the get a fee for listing..a fee for selling and a cut from the paypal...when they forced paypal I left..with 1300 positives and zero neg...money orders can be a drag and take people longer to pay...but that's all I do anymore

There was a point in time about 12 years ago that I was selling A LOT of stuff on ebay. Most items had maybe 25 -33% margins , but toward the end I was only making 2 - 5% because ebay / paypal was taking it all with the fees and false claims from the buyers. Paypal ALWAYS sided with the buyer and it didn't matter what I showed them I still got a charge back.

The part that got me was I was doing all of the work but they where making all of the money

USM1
12-27-2011, 10:29 AM
Also don't forget PayPal is sending out 1099's this year. (200 transactions and $20,000).

C Dexter
12-27-2011, 10:43 AM
My big question is WHY is there no competition to Paypal? It is a money machine. I would think other financial institutions would be all over it but Paypal appears to be the only game in town. How can this be?

Cosmoline
12-27-2011, 11:07 AM
Not to mention the $0.30 + 2.9% fee Paypal charges the seller for the transaction.

If you send the payment as a "gift" there are no fees for either the buyer or seller.

Cosmoline
12-27-2011, 11:08 AM
My big question is WHY is there no competition to Paypal? It is a money machine. I would think other financial institutions would be all over it but Paypal appears to be the only game in town. How can this be?

There was a company called Gunpal, the owners are/were under federal investigations.

Todd64
12-27-2011, 03:18 PM
Banks are coming out with alternatives to paypal. I had a buddy that was staying with me for a few months. He paid his rent to me using a service from Chase (see link):

http://www.chase.com/online/services/quickpay.htm

I think he was a Chase checking account holder. I don't know if other banks do this, but it worked out fine. I got an email from Chase saying money was ready for me. I logged in to their site, and "retrieved" it, if I recall, by putting in my bank's routing number and my checking account number. No fees, no paypal.

Here's another way.... to save the seller the hassle of going to the bank to deposit checks (if mailing checks is the preferred mode of payment), Some banks let you use your smart phone to actually take a picture of the check using a mobile app. The deposit gets recorded, and then you shred the paper check you've received. I've used this feature a few times. Saves me a trip to the bank.

Now - if you don't like any kind of electronic transactions, then of course none of this will help.

Vos Parate
12-27-2011, 07:40 PM
If you send the payment as a "gift" there are no fees for either the buyer or seller.

Not true. "Giftee" pays the fees.

Fiasco
12-27-2011, 08:09 PM
Not true. "Giftee" pays the fees.

I had a gift transaction in October where a friend sent me some money to buy a present for her boyfriend and there was no fee.

Amsdorf
12-27-2011, 08:22 PM
Not true. "Giftee" pays the fees.

That is not true.

136th TFS
12-27-2011, 08:28 PM
Also don't forget PayPal is sending out 1099's this year. (200 transactions and $20,000).
Interesting information. Is there a way to verify it besides waiting for the mail delivery on 1-31-12? Wouldn't credit card companies have to do the same thing??:confused:

Would the 1099's be for the buyer or seller or both?

cfullgraf
12-27-2011, 08:54 PM
I have not had any issues using ebay for the three transactions that I have made in my life. But, all the negative information makes me cringe enough that I have cancelled my account and I do not use ebay. When I do an internet search any result that has "ebay" in the address, I do not even open that page.

Besides, the thrill of the auction does not ring my bell and I wasted too much time watching the auction bidding.

I never have had a paypal account and chuckled when I got a series of e-mails from them commenting on how my account was about to expire. Maybe it was from a phishing expedition. That alone was enough for me to not use paypal.

I really do not like companies that accept credit cards processed through paypal, but sometimes I really don't have a choice. At least I still don't have a paypal account.

But lots of folks like and use paypal. Be my guest.

USM1
12-28-2011, 02:22 AM
PayPal 1099 rules:
https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/marketingweb?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=marketing_us/IRS6050W

wesvb
12-28-2011, 05:04 AM
PayPal and Ebay's intent is to not run afoul of the ATF or any State laws.
It is not an anti-gun policy. If they were purely anti-gun then you wouldn't see Ebay selling every gun part imagineable with with the exception of items requiring a 4473 and high capacity magazines.
Ebay does not require paypal as the only payment method. Yeesh.

RuggedTerrain40
12-28-2011, 03:14 PM
Is paypal really anti-gun? Do they go out of their way to limit gun-related freedoms, or are they just a private business that chooses to not get involved with guns? I have only seen evidence of the latter and would like proof of the former if it exists.


I'd say going by the stories I read on here, PayPal sounds "anti-gun" to me. By their choosing to not want to do gun business transaction, when guns are so much a big part of the current economy, they send a message. "We dont want to do business if it has to do with guns."

Even if they are not the Brady bunch or Dianne Feinstein, they sound like nobody I would want to do business with.

I am glad I read this string because I was getting ready to open up a pay pal account on ebay. I will not be now, for reasons others mentioned.

Eric

RuggedTerrain40
12-28-2011, 03:16 PM
I no longer do any business on eBay and never went with Paypal. Both organizations can go to hell.

A friend lost his Paypal account because he sold a highly collectible original 30 round carbine magazine. He no longer does either eBay or Paypal.

They have their rules, and that means do without me.


The above is how I feel about paypal and ebay.

Eric

wesvb
12-28-2011, 03:48 PM
Your money.
eBay has MUCH better deals on hard to find parts than Gunbroker and contrary to what folks here want to believe EBay allows the form of payment to be decided by the seller.

Amsdorf
12-28-2011, 04:21 PM
I'd love to know, as a seller, how to avoid PayPal. Do tell!!

wesvb
12-28-2011, 04:31 PM
I'm not a seller but when I look at auctions I see multiple forms of payment listed.
Credit cards, easy pay, money orders, etc....
Here's one. Click (http://www.ebay.com/itm/M1903-A3-SPRINGFIELD-PART-LOWER-BAND-/200691574878?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eba26685e)

precision40
12-28-2011, 05:37 PM
I got the shaft after I sold a $250 die-cast car on EBay. The buyer got my car, swapped out her bad parts with my good ones then filed a complaint with paypal. After that, I emptied my account and have not used it since. Them automatically defaulting in favor of the buyer doesn't sit well with me. It's fertile ground for fraud.

Amsdorf
12-28-2011, 05:38 PM
Bingo.

Shrevy
12-28-2011, 09:25 PM
I just attempted to list an item on eBay. I mentioned "money order" in the description. eBay would not allow the listing saying:

You can not submit your listing due to the following problems

Please review your item

It appears that you are offering money order as a payment method which is no longer permitted in the eBay marketplace. As of January 15th, we will be removing any items that offer this payment method within the listing. Sellers must offer to accept one or more of the following payment methods

* Paypal
* Credit or debit card processed through an Internet merchant account
* Propay

Sellers may in addition offer to accept Payment Upon Pickup.

Please revise your listing by removing the banned payment method. Based on the safety concerns and input from the Community, eBay has established an Accepted Payments policy that clarifies eBay's position on payment methods.

For more information on the Safe Payments policy, please click on the following link:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/accepted-payments-policy.html

If you click the link, you will find that eBay bans (their word) payment by cash, check and money order.

Amsdorf
12-28-2011, 09:26 PM
Thought so...

Shrevy
12-28-2011, 09:29 PM
It is for your safety...

fat old married guy
12-28-2011, 09:35 PM
That's how these people get there revenue. If you pay by money order they get cut out of their piece of the pie. You thought pay pal was bad; Just wait till next year or two when all internet sales will be taxed in all 50 states.

sigman2
12-28-2011, 09:38 PM
Yeah, by not allowing checks or money orders they are protecting the seller. Riiiiiight!!! I'm sure it has nothing to do with the 4% they get when you use PayPal.

J.R.2009
12-29-2011, 06:26 AM
Let me see if I understand the "E-Bay point of view".
I, the seller, must use THEIR method of payment for MY safety. So, when I receive the MO or personal check and take it to my bank and have them tell me its good in a day or two ( actually my credit union tells me right away ) that's NOT good for me. I'm not going to send out the item UNTIL I see the MO/check has cleared, so what am I protected from ????
If the seller won't take a USPS MO, bank MO, certified check or cc, he can stick it when the sun don't shine. Guess I won't be buying much from E-bay any more.

meplat
12-29-2011, 06:36 AM
Just an FYI, your banking institution will accept another's check and extend to you the "courtesy" of crediting that amount to your account after a few days. That does NOT mean the check "has cleared" or is even good. That determination can take weeks or months. Yes it can. Accept checks at your own risk. Checks are very easily forged and who gets stuck with it? YOU DO, not your bank, not your buyer, but YOU (for passing a bad check). Your bank was just "doing you a favor" by letting you access that non-existent money.

:D

bd1
12-29-2011, 09:43 AM
I don't have a problem with personal checks. If I'm selling something I'll have my credit union call the bank the check's drawn on to find out if it's good before I deposit it and ship. If I'm buying I'm OK with the seller doing the same thing. If the seller's in a big hurry I'll have the $$$ wired or get a cashier's check. Keep your demand deposits with a local bank or CU where they know you and you'll still get service. I've never had a problem on the "deal" itself with a member here. The lesson is know who you're dealing with and get the specific terms agreed to by e-mail in advance. Then follow up. One of the HUGE problems with our $$$ today in the Western World is there are just too many lazy buzzards circling trying to skim a slice of it, Wall St to Silicon Valley to Main St.

Schriv
12-29-2011, 11:10 AM
I have bought far more Garand related items on ebay than I have gunbroker. GB tends to be overpriced in my opinion. I hate auctions and only suffer through them of there isn't any other options. I look hard for Buy it Now and Paypal payment as options when I use both sites. It's the convienience of NOT having to deal with snail mail that really motivates me. Other than receivers, I've been able to hit buy it now for everything I've needed to complete several builds on ebay. In two minutes, the part is purchased and paid for. And often, the item is on it's way to me from the seller the next day. In over 12 years of using Paypal, I've not had a single payment problem. BUT, I have had USPS money orders take some long detours on their way to the seller. Both eventually turned up, but only after waiting 30 days and filing a missing payment claim.
I've had some great transactions on this site and some others that were handled to old fashioned way. But with my work schedule, getting out to the PO during the day can be a huge problem. I'm a firm believer that all transactions should be concluded swiftly, so taking extra time to complete the exchange gives me fits.

Amsdorf
12-29-2011, 01:00 PM
Ditto on GB prices and the rest of your post.

wolfrage
12-29-2011, 02:28 PM
The problem with Paypal is as a seller Paypal will always err on the side of screwing you over. It's great as a buyer, but man if someone complains about you, unfounded or not, you risk your money being pulled from your bank account and stuff like that.

Amsdorf
12-29-2011, 03:55 PM
Good point.

Orlando
12-29-2011, 03:58 PM
Yup.......

Orlando
12-29-2011, 03:58 PM
I............

Orlando
12-29-2011, 03:59 PM
Agree.......

Orlando
12-29-2011, 04:00 PM
with all the above

Cosmoline
12-30-2011, 07:48 PM
Not true. "Giftee" pays the fees.

Nope, done it multiple times. No fee for either party.

Orlando
12-30-2011, 07:50 PM
Nope, done it multiple times. No fee for either party.


There is a fee for the guy sending money as a gift if he uses his credit card that is on file.
May not be if you are sending money as a gift if you are transfering funds out of your account

wesvb
12-30-2011, 07:56 PM
Nope, done it multiple times. No fee for either party.
Paypal provides a very convenient service and they have to make money to continue. When you circumvent their profit by taking advantage of a benefit they provide for real gifts the rest of us have to pay with increased fees.

Vos Parate
12-30-2011, 08:31 PM
There is a fee for the guy sending money as a gift if he uses his credit card that is on file.
May not be if you are sending money as a gift if you are transfering funds out of your account

I stand corrected. I suppose if one abuses the system they will freeze your account.