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View Full Version : Creedmoor to Start Selling Repro 1903A4's


lapriester
01-22-2012, 02:34 AM
FYI, I got an email from Creedmoor that they will soon be selling 1903A4 reproduction rifles for $1075 and they are not Gibbs rifles and they say they are not made from previously welded drill rifle receivers. Sounds like they have applied for and expect to get approval to sell them as C&R rifles. This, I am interested in.

Made by Curt Wolfe at Rock Ridge Machine Works.

http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?llr=yg8mv7bab&v=001vUitVcnL-0fsOQsa8iSQ-0h4MsW9n2sbikA66DKUgLiMHJkUKGfWYtQeOFnDEHoiKqSr5pP A8QDFDGxhUGPQhmROQTdbpCttRnTuzgMv9xm05WVNW7lGKK5so GKK4drmdIwgWukCxgLcq3Foynv-8PbDr6KS2kd1T5sN3GclTyqO2EDUOIlEWBt1WcDvC6JDTRXs-vnWkrNhfCKCfnL-GUMHtEAjdAgtLyZyQWT1n7LUbb7ODFO3OEE2CDCxTZ4G

Larry

sigman2
01-22-2012, 04:43 AM
Larry,

Look again. You may want to get further clarification.
It says "These are not re-welded receivers".

A drill rifle's receiver has only been welded once.

And yes, I'm aware that "re-weld" Garand has only been welded once.

wesvb
01-22-2012, 06:59 AM
$875 for 1903A3
$1075 for an A4orgery

They pretty much have to be recovered drill rifles. At those prices I don't think a profit can be made if they aren't. Anyone know if any of the Pallets went to Rock Ridge Machine works?

BigBuckeye
01-22-2012, 07:22 AM
This gives me an excellent excuse to post a pic of my Gibbs......rapidly becoming my favorite rifle.

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f398/mgriffin76/IMG_1077.jpg

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f398/mgriffin76/IMG_1082.jpg

FrankD
01-22-2012, 09:53 AM
I'd rather stick to the real thing.
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m284/FrankD/DSCN7721.jpg
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m284/FrankD/DSCN7722.jpg

Paladin601
01-22-2012, 10:19 AM
Sound like they will be nice, Probably buying the Scope from Hi-Lux. $1075 seems to be in the ball park with Gibbs. The Said a 4 groove bbl, GI or Criterion?

Mark1
01-22-2012, 10:39 AM
Not re-welded would insinuate that they are NOT using receiver that were demiled (being cut into pieces) and would require welding to reassembly the receiver. I think there is a play on the wording. It says nothing about using drill rifles.

I understand that Gibbs is putting the drill rifle receivers through a heat treatment process and Creedmoor may be doing the same thing.

Ray Brandes
01-22-2012, 01:37 PM
I am building a clone right now. If you only want to shoot by all means just get a Gibbs or the Rock Ridge.
But, if you want the pride of building one yourself you can save some bucks. Of course, you will need to know someone with an action wrench, .30-06 chamber reamer, head space gages... Here are my costs:

http://www.ray-vin.com/a4clone.jpg

Regards, Ray

Scott in Michigan
01-22-2012, 01:38 PM
Creedmore is a highly respected outfit. I'll wait to actually handle one of the rifles before I'll pass judgement.

Ray Brandes
01-22-2012, 01:40 PM
I'd rather stick to the real thing.

Sweet collection!
I just need a shooter for vintage matches and this is what I can afford.
-Ray

mkrad
01-22-2012, 02:48 PM
I have a 3.58M CMP 03A3 that has been rebarreled with a 6-43 Rem 4-groove barrel gauges 1 at both ends, is a nice shooter but I assume of limited collector value. What are the pros and cons of turning this one into an A4gery versus selling this and ponying up for the Rock Ridge or Gibbs? I know this is not a reweld or drill rifle, a good thing, and has a quality USGI barrel, also good.

Who could best do the drill and tap/scope mount if I decide to go with rebuild (I have never done such and would hate to bugger up a perfectly good receiver).

Mind you, I want a shooter I can take to the range, and don't want to pay for, or risk, an original item.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Matt

bob moore
01-22-2012, 03:02 PM
If you want to make a budget WW2 sniper rifle:
http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL100.../400312598.jpg (http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL1001/4368153/23985932/400312598.jpg)
http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL100.../400312599.jpg (http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL1001/4368153/23985932/400312599.jpg)
http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL100.../400312597.jpg (http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL1001/4368153/23985932/400312597.jpg)
http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL100.../400312596.jpg (http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL1001/4368153/23985932/400312596.jpg)
http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL100.../400312595.jpg (http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL1001/4368153/23985932/400312595.jpg)
http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL100.../400312594.jpg (http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL1001/4368153/23985932/400312594.jpg)
http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL100.../400312593.jpg (http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL1001/4368153/23985932/400312593.jpg)
http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL100.../400312592.jpg

No4(T) Savage

TokiWartooth
01-22-2012, 03:24 PM
Not re-welded would insinuate that they are NOT using receiver that were demiled (being cut into pieces) and would require welding to reassembly the receiver. I think there is a play on the wording. It says nothing about using drill rifles.

I understand that Gibbs is putting the drill rifle receivers through a heat treatment process and Creedmoor may be doing the same thing.

Mark, I was thinking the same thing. Nowhere does it say they are not using drill receivers. Just not "rewelds".. Well, what do you folks think they're using? A little coincidence that these appear right after the CMP's junk auction?

lapriester
01-22-2012, 03:52 PM
If you want to make a budget WW2 sniper rifle:
http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL100.../400312598.jpg (http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL1001/4368153/23985932/400312598.jpg)
http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL100.../400312599.jpg (http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL1001/4368153/23985932/400312599.jpg)
http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL100.../400312597.jpg (http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL1001/4368153/23985932/400312597.jpg)
http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL100.../400312596.jpg (http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL1001/4368153/23985932/400312596.jpg)
http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL100.../400312595.jpg (http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL1001/4368153/23985932/400312595.jpg)
http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL100.../400312594.jpg (http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL1001/4368153/23985932/400312594.jpg)
http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL100.../400312593.jpg (http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL1001/4368153/23985932/400312593.jpg)
http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL100.../400312592.jpg

No4(T) Savage

Hmmmmm, that sure looks awful familiar to me Bob. :-) Shot it yet? It sure is looking good these days.

Larry

lapriester
01-22-2012, 03:56 PM
If that's what Creedmoor is doing with their ad it's a bit sneaky in the wording. I'll have to write them for the answer tomorrow. Regardless, I may have to liquidate a couple of things to get one if they sell them C&R.

Larry

Craftsman
01-22-2012, 04:09 PM
I am intrigued & interested in these rifles too! Not a bad price point, for I assume a rifle legal for CMP vintage sniper matches? Any info on the scopes, as far as being US made? If they're made in China, that'll make the decision easy for me, to NOT buy one.

Roadkingtrax
01-22-2012, 04:24 PM
They used to be Chinese made,...now they use a company that is different from what I have read. The name is a British scope company, in this globalized world nothing is made at this price point OUT of China.

The rifles also use Shaw barrels, which my research is saying bottom of the...um, er...keg. Another forum owner of the rifle has said his rifle purchased from Gibbs, was stamped made at Rock Ridge (Same company as Creedmore).

These rifles look everything they are supposed to be, modern production rifles made from recovered drill 1903a3's and sporterized with a scope mount. In short, they are made to shoot the hell out of without worrying about history or value of collector rifles. A drilled and tapped 1903a3 is certainly more affordable then a real 1903a4.

Iron sights are still more fun. :p:)

lapriester
01-22-2012, 04:42 PM
I am intrigued & interested in these rifles too! Not a bad price point, for I assume a rifle legal for CMP vintage sniper matches? Any info on the scopes, as far as being US made? If they're made in China, that'll make the decision easy for me, to NOT buy one.

If your house is like mine, LOL, 3/4's of what you own was made in China. Every electronic, every rifle scope and pair of binos half the electronics on you cars, etc, etc. I don''t even worry about it anymore. It's a waste of time these days and almost impossible to determine.

L

jgaynor
01-22-2012, 04:54 PM
"malcolm" is not and never was a british company. It was a US company based in New York that made scopes from the early 2oth century up to the 1930's. The Leatherwood/HiLux people have acquired the name and use it on their line of olde timey scopes for black powder rifles. More recently they are using it on the Weaver 330C replica (M73G2) produced in China for Gibbs and now, Creedmore as well as their 8x Unertl Replica.

I beleive Gibbs has used barrels from three or four differnt sources on their scoped 03-A3's.

Regards,
Jim

Craftsman
01-22-2012, 05:15 PM
If your house is like mine, LOL, 3/4's of what you own was made in China. Every electronic, every rifle scope and pair of binos half the electronics on you cars, etc, etc. I don''t even worry about it anymore. It's a waste of time these days and almost impossible to determine.

L

Oh, I agree with what you're saying. Just my personal feeling, that if I want to own a USGI rifle, it will not have any Chinese repro parts on it. Yes, they own about every other market today. Can't let them have our vintage military guns too!:)
It's like a buddy of mine who shoots SASS/cowboy action, told me some of the guys use the Norinko(Chinese) shotguns and such. To me, something's just not right about about an American-Cowboy, wielding a Chinese scatter-gun.:(

wesvb
01-22-2012, 05:24 PM
I have a 3.58M CMP 03A3 that has been rebarreled with a 6-43 Rem 4-groove barrel gauges 1 at both ends, is a nice shooter but I assume of limited collector value. What are the pros and cons of turning this one into an A4gery versus selling this and ponying up for the Rock Ridge or Gibbs? I know this is not a reweld or drill rifle, a good thing, and has a quality USGI barrel, also good.

Who could best do the drill and tap/scope mount if I decide to go with rebuild (I have never done such and would hate to bugger up a perfectly good receiver).

Mind you, I want a shooter I can take to the range, and don't want to pay for, or risk, an original item.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Matt
Me personally? I would never drill and tap a Springfield that was not a recovered drill rifle.
Look for a sporter that has already been D&T'd or start from scratch as I did with a cleaned up drill receiver from Old West Scrounger(Val Forgett/Gibbs).
A warning though. When you start from that far away from a complete rifle you will end with considerably more into it than either the Gibbs or the Creedmoor would cost you.
Now I'm looking at building a 1941 Sniper. Wonder what that's going to cost by the time I'm through?

Oh and selling rifles to pay for another one? I cannot bring myself to do it. That's just sacrilege.:D I have a K31 that I absolutely hate to shoot but I still can't sell it and still drag it out for Vintage matches to shoot poorly.

Roadkingtrax
01-22-2012, 05:30 PM
Me personally? I would never drill and tap a Springfield that was not a recovered drill rifle.
Look for a sporter that has already been D&T'd or start from scratch as I did with a cleaned up drill receiver from Old West Scrounger(Val Forgett/Gibbs).
A warning though. When you start from that far away from a complete rifle you will end with considerably more into it than either the Gibbs or the Creedmoor would cost you.
Now I'm looking at building a 1941 Sniper. Wonder what that's going to cost by the time I'm through?

Don't D&T a good rifle. I would follow this sound advice from WESVB, and others who have spent the money in other projects.

There appears to be a whole industry of drilling and tapping going on (Gibbs, Creedmoor etc.)...no need to add to the destruction. Let the drill rifles suffer the fate, and leave good rifles to their original design.

mkrad
01-22-2012, 06:47 PM
Don't D&T a good rifle. I would follow this sound advice from WESVB, and others who have spent the money in other projects.

There appears to be a whole industry of drilling and tapping going on (Gibbs, Creedmoor etc.)...no need to add to the destruction. Let the drill rifles suffer the fate, and leave good rifles to their original design.

OK folks, it will stay as-is. Thanks for the advice.

Ray Brandes
01-22-2012, 07:12 PM
Regarding drill rifle vs: good rifle;
Any rifle that shoots is a good rifle.
I agree not to d&t a non-drill receiver because there are plenty of drill receivers available.
And I also agree, for the same money, I would choose a non-drill over a recovered drill rifle.
But, don't look down on recovered drill rifles. When some SOB gets shot dead, do you think he givs a flip if there is some weld showing on the cut-off???????
Regards, Ray
PS: Need a drill receiver? email [email protected]

capone
01-23-2012, 10:40 AM
I remember reading that . But thought it only said they were not rewelds? I did not remember reading any statement that they were not recovered drill rifles.where do you think someone would find a pile of 1903a3 receivers besides drill rifles ? I like my drill rifle rebuilds.

motorcop
01-23-2012, 02:36 PM
I think a whole bunch of people are jumping off the roof here when they don't know all the facts. I am going to bet that these rifles are the same thing made under the Gibbs name of which I own one and it shoots GREAT! That said, why shouldn't someone turn a run of the mill 03A3 into an clone A4 if he wants to? Is it better for a person that has an 03A3 and doesn't shoot it because his eyes aren't as good as they used to be, to haul that rifle out of the closet or safe and mount a scope on it so he can shoot it? Or should he just put it back in the safe/closet and wish his eyes were younger? If putting a scope on an 03A3 means that the rifle is going to get used isn't that a good thing? Or should it just sit and collect dust?

Funny how the guys complaining about Gibbs rifles being lowly old drill rifles and how they would never own one are the same guys complaining about people shooting holes in a "real" 03A3 to mount a scope. I know, so I guess we should all run out and buy GENUINE 03A4's right? Right....almost none of the people I know that own real 03A4's shoot them. They haul them out of the safe once or twice a year, wipe them down, caress them, talk to them and immediately put them back in the safe so nothing happens to them. One character refused to let me cock the rifle and pull the trigger on a dummy round to test the trigger. He said I might break the firing pin!!! Are you kidding me??? Put it in a museum if it's that special!

And why do people complain about the Chicom 330 style scopes? Is there some company in the good old USA making these scopes that I don't know about? I would love to own a real USA made 330 style scope with click adjustment wheels but NO ONE MAKES THEM HERE! And if they did how much do you think the asking price would be?? The last really nice Weaver 330 scope I saw went for $800.00...how many people can afford that much for just a scope?? I personally think the Gibbs/Creedmore 03A4 clone is a great idea. Finally someone came along with a terrific idea on how to get guys shooting while using old recovered drill rifles that weren't being used for much else. We need more innovation like this not complaints....
Rick H.

capone
01-23-2012, 03:11 PM
Good post Rick.

motorcop
01-23-2012, 03:52 PM
Thanks Capone...every now and then I just get fired up. To me it's all about getting guys to the range, not making them feel bad for mounting a scope or buying a drill rifle or God forbid buying a Chicom scope.

Rick

ceresco
01-23-2012, 04:28 PM
"original issue Remington (A4) receivers" Somehow, I don't quite believe this part. Good Shooting.........

7.62x63mmUS
01-23-2012, 04:59 PM
Thanks Capone...every now and then I just get fired up. To me it's all about getting guys to the range, not making them feel bad for mounting a scope or buying a drill rifle or God forbid buying a Chicom scope.

Rick

I'd never spend the money on a Johnson or Gewehr 43 or anything else so rare because I'd never shoot it. If I can't fire the thing whats the point? A collector I am not.

Roadkingtrax
01-23-2012, 05:14 PM
"original issue Remington (A4) receivers" Somehow, I don't quite believe this part. Good Shooting.........

Calling them 1903a4 would be a misnomer then.

Clearly they are 1903a3's that are modified to get guys to the range.

motorcop
01-23-2012, 08:03 PM
While I agree in part that they are not 03A4's I don't know what else you could really call them. Perhaps 03A3A4's? For decades reproduction or replica firearms have been called by the parent name. For example, Uberti calls their 1873 Winchester replica an 1873. They do not use the Winchester name however. How many replica Single Action Armies are being made that replicate the Colt SSA and most of them are called 1873 Single Actions. I have no problem calling a clone 03A4 an 03A4, so long as it is not purported to be a genuine 03A4. Saying a rifle is an 03A4 just describes what it is supposed to look like, not if it is the genuine article. Look how many 03A3 parts now carry the 03A4 designation or "Sniper" terminology just to draw attention to the product and hopefully sell it to some unsuspecting buyer. Fleabay is filled with these examples such as calling a civilian Weaver 330C scope an "03A4 Scope" or Sniper scope. Same with old Redfield vertical split rings. Apparently those rings were ALL used on 03A4's. It boils down to buyer beware. Like trying to pawn off an "all original" milsurp rifle. There is no such thing unless it came straight from the factory and into a storage point. Parting an all original rifle together doesn't make it ALL original. It may be correct but not original.
Rick

Roadkingtrax
01-23-2012, 08:07 PM
Another good post.

No doubt they would be fun to shoot, and all those originals can be ignored in the safe. :)

Not letting a bolt get cycled is a little OCD, I would be too tempted to know just how well it shoots...at least ONE time. :D

ceresco
01-23-2012, 10:51 PM
After re-reading the quote, I suspect the (A4) part was added. Guessing the actual quote was more nearly "original SC and Remington receivers". Of course we know they aren't A4 receivers welded, drill, or otherwise. Call the final product whatever you wish. I agree that using the drill rifles for these projects is entirely appropriate--and safe. Good Shooting......

Paladin601
01-23-2012, 11:14 PM
Here is the product description from their website:

http://www.creedmoorsports.com/shop/1903-A4-Sniper-Rifle.html

kentuckytroutbum
01-24-2012, 10:46 AM
motorcop-

Well Said! If the collectors/purists want a "Correct Grade" rifle with all matching parts, and origional parts, stocks, etc, that's fine. But your point about getting new shooters to the range, is well taken. Given the popularity of G/S/V matches, a new shooter needs something that he/she can afford. Creedmore should be praised for recognizing the need, and responding with their rifles.

mike miller
01-24-2012, 12:54 PM
Here is a post from Dennis from the National Match forum concerning the rifles Creedmoor is obtaining from Rock Ridge. I know he will not mind me posting this, he wants this info out.

"To everyone who read this post and ordered a rifle based on what I said:

I was WRONG, the receivers ARE recovered drill rifles. However, they are NOT re-welds. I chose to reply to this particular post because it best sums up my ignorance on the matter. Today being the first work day after returning from SHOT, where we purchased these rifles, I thought it was important to confirm what I thought to be true, that these were NOT recovered drill rifles. This morning I spoke with the VP of Rock Ridge, who told me I was mistaken, and filled me in on proper terminology and definitions. I received the below email from the company President giving further clarification:


Dennis,
Im sorry about any confusion on either of our parts, but to clarify, even though these are recovered drill receivers they were not de-milled receivers, and NO welding was done on them to bring them back to issue condition. That is not the case with all manufacturers. So it is accurate to say they are not re-welded receivers. The drill receivers we use were only lightly tack welded at the front bottom and at the cut off switch near the rear of the receiver prior to being sent out to schools. This is easily removed (filed away) and polished. Each receiver is then bead-blasted and parkerized, then given a thorough 29 point inspection. If any flaws are found, the receiver is rejected from the program (cut into pieces). After the inspection process, the receiver is given a new bolt and barrel, built into a rifle which is then test fired at the range of 50 yards. During the shooting session, rifles must pass required grouping and adjustment procedures. Please note: Our rifles carry a one year warranty against manufacturer defects.

Again, I apologize for any misunderstanding between us. Our rifles are of the highest quality, and Ive been told, the rifle you set the record with was one we built. I hope this puts to rest any question concerning the quality and integrity of our rifles verses other manufacturers.

Best Regards,
Curtis Wolf
President


I take full responsibility for my ignorance and will certainly understand if anyone would like to cancel their order. Nobody's cards were charged. As Mr. Wolf said though, I shoot a Rock Ridge built rifle; and I dont have any doubt about the accuracy of my rifle. In all honesty until today I didnt realize it was a recovered drill rifle, nor did I know who made it.

Please feel free to call me at work tomorrow and give me your two cents. Im hoping the fact I corrected myself as soon as I realized my mistake will keep you from getting angry with Creedmoor Sports. Wed never risk losing the trust and confidence of our customers in order to avoid publishing an embarrassing letter/post such as this.

Respectfully,

Dennis DeMille,
GM, Creedmoor Sports

Note: A slightly modified version of this post will be sent out to everyone who ordered a rifle."

capone
01-26-2012, 01:35 PM
Like i said in a previous post to this subject. Where do you think someone would find a pile of 1903a3 rifles? Besides a pile of drill rifles. Which i see no problems with this. They did not state in description that they were rebuilt drill rifles. When I had my two at local gun show, i told every interested party what they were originally. Most did not care. cause they just wanted them to shoot. One dealer wanted them real bad. But his wife would not let him buy them. Due to fact of drill rifle history. She said if i would not have told them , they would have bought them in a heartbeat , due to there so nice condtion. We discussed Gibbs and the other rebuilders ? And the wife still said no. Even though they had a table full of old surplus guns. And a few of which were new made parts guns/ turned into firing guns by some one? Al

Ray Brandes
01-26-2012, 04:42 PM
For all y'all, here is a photo of my 03A4 built on drill rifle parts. $750 invested.
http://www.ray-vin.com/03A3/built.jpg
Can't wait to shoot it!
Regards, Ray

BobN54
01-26-2012, 04:50 PM
... even though these are recovered drill receivers they were not de-milled receivers, and NO welding was done on them to bring them back to issue condition. That is not the case with all manufacturers....

So what manufacturers are welding receivers; I wasn't aware that any are doing that?

7.62x63mmUS
01-26-2012, 05:01 PM
So what manufacturers are welding receivers; I wasn't aware that any are doing that?

Could be a way of subtly implying others are doing it, or it could be an unintentional ASSumption.

j.howardcycles
01-26-2012, 05:28 PM
Ray;
how did you get your lyman alaskan to fit forward like that ?
When i put mine together the scope ring nut hit the mount and would not let the rear ring fit into the screws. Did you mill the mount down ?? I used old rings but a new redfield mount.
John:

Paladin601
01-26-2012, 06:00 PM
Ray,

looks nice, and saved you $500 off a Gibbs and it will shoot just as good.

capone
01-26-2012, 06:22 PM
I dont think anyone is welding any a3 receivers together. Has anyone ever seen a demilled A3 receiver?? I have never seen any for sale anywhere in the past.I have seen thompsons, garands,m1 carbine, and m14. even some m16 receivers. Never a a3 receiver. Just my 2 cents. i could be wrong??

Ray Brandes
01-26-2012, 07:41 PM
Ray;
how did you get your lyman alaskan to fit forward like that ?

John, I have a new Redfield mount from Brownells and old rings that were given to me. I guess I am just lucky. Here are some close ups showing how tight it is.
Regards, Ray
http://www.ray-vin.com/03A3/built3.jpg
http://www.ray-vin.com/03A3/built4.jpg

Ray Brandes
01-26-2012, 07:45 PM
So what manufacturers are welding receivers; I wasn't aware that any are doing that?

I think this comes from M1 Garand's that were cut through and then someone welded them back together. Apparently there were hundreds done this way. As I heard it some were excellent and some were rather poorly done.

I have not heard of any 03's cut in two and then welded back together.

Regards, Ray

capone
01-26-2012, 09:46 PM
functional 1903a3 rifle/deactivated to drill rifle specs to not be functional/ rebuilt using new parts.= rebuild or rebuilt back to factory specs.

functional automibile/ wrecked and can't be driven.(deactivated)/ repaired back to factory specs.= repaired or rebuilt automobile.

So do you not drive the car because it was wrecked? I worked in body shop business for years. When we rebuilt cars that were wrecked and we always sold them for loan value if the overall condition of vehicle allowed this price. SO a SUper nice 1903a3 that the condition would allow the $800 price tops, a drill rifle with all new parts in same condition .should be worth $575-$600 range maybe. That is if you just want a real nice shooter. but not all drill rifle conditions are as nice as the ones i have and the ones I saw that ray had.A lot of ones i saw are no way near as nice as these.

3StrikesNC
01-27-2012, 11:02 AM
Ray;

I noticed your front scope ring is behind the elev/windage adjustment block. If I'm not mistaken, that's a K 2.5.

I have a K2.5 60-B, which is a little "shorter" to the threads;
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa112/6045gcnc/IMG-20110925-00105.jpg

(K2.5 on top, K2.5-60B on bottom).

Because of this, my elev/wind block has to be on the "front" side of the front scope ring.

Has anyone found any different?

Here's a few more pics for comparison:
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa112/6045gcnc/Wittenburg-20110925-00106.jpg

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa112/6045gcnc/Lovelady-20110925-00108.jpg

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa112/6045gcnc/Wittenburg-20110925-00107.jpg

rickgman
01-27-2012, 01:55 PM
Ray, I had the same issue - not enough clearance between the Lyman Alaskan scope (M73) and the scope mount base. I found out that there were two scope mount bases that were used - one was basically flat (like the one you are using) and the other had a step in the rear. I machined my scope base to have the rear step and things work well. Rick

wesvb
01-27-2012, 08:04 PM
I have both a diamond S K2.5 and the 60-B. Neither one will fit with the adjusting block in front of the scope ring. I could make the older one fit with quite a bit of machining on the base and bolt. The 60-B would never fit with anything that even resembles a legal set of bases and rings. The rear occular is just too big. The smaller occular screws on to the 60-B but by the time you get it focused there is only a few threads holding it to the scope.

FrankD
01-27-2012, 08:12 PM
welded A3/03/A3/03
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m284/FrankD/DSCN7753.jpg

j.howardcycles
01-28-2012, 09:43 AM
Thanks ray,
nice rifle. That is a lyman alaskan correct ? The only reason i ask is that the caps and rear of the eyepiece look to be aluminum . If it is maybe lyman changed some of the steel parts to aluminum .
John

motorcop
01-28-2012, 09:52 AM
Hey Frank: Can you give a little history on the rifle you posted the picture of?

Hey Ray: Who did the bolt handle on your 03A4 and do you like the way it turned out?
Thanks guys......

Rick H.

mac1911
01-26-2013, 01:06 PM
Ok so what's the out come
1. Are these A4 clones shooters
2. Did Rock Ridge build these for creedmore and gibbs
3. What is the difference in price really for?
Creedmores took a jump in price since Nov....

Calfed
01-27-2013, 03:38 AM
I glommed a sported 03A4 a few years back with the expectation of re-building it to shoot in the CMP vintage match. I'll have to put it into a proper stock and was planning on using a Weaver K2.5 scope in place of the Weaver 4x Marksman scope currently mounted.

The rifle has the original Redfield base, but the rings are the modern horizontally split rings, rather than the original vertically split rings. Can I use the modern rings in the CMP match?

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s194/Calfed/03A4005-1.jpg

ceresco
01-27-2013, 12:21 PM
You can only get opinions here--IMO; yes--but you need to keep up with the CMP rules book which should be updated in March...or whenever. They have been a bit careless in writing (and inconsistent in enforcing) some of the rules over the last few years. BTW--with a genuine A4; I would be looking for an Alaskan or M84..... Good Shooting....

Calfed
01-27-2013, 02:06 PM
Thanks, Cerersco

The rifle is an original A4, but heavily sported. Still has the original bolt, mount and probably barrel, but all have been buffed and deeply blued...a beautiful job, but such a waste.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s194/Calfed/03A4.jpg
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s194/Calfed/03A4012-1.jpg
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s194/Calfed/03A4011-1.jpg
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s194/Calfed/03A4002-1.jpg
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s194/Calfed/03A4016-1.jpg

How would an original Alaskan or M84 stack up against a K2.5, optically?

ceresco
01-27-2013, 05:45 PM
About the same but much more correct. I would consider having the A4 reparked--not expensive. That A4 is a jewel and well worth restoring....as in $$$. If you need a safety, PM me and I will send you one. Good Shooting....

Calfed
01-28-2013, 09:51 AM
Thanks, ceresco. I'll look through my box of parts and get back to you.

jgaynor
01-28-2013, 11:46 AM
Ok so what's the out come
1. Are these A4 clones shooters
2. Did Rock Ridge build these for creedmore and gibbs
3. What is the difference in price really for?
Creedmores took a jump in price since Nov....

1. Yes
2. I believe Rock Ridge is the actual manufacturer for both Gibbs, Creedmore and James River.
3. Can only speculate. Company's tend to hold their actual manufacturing cost data (and profit margins) very close to the vest.

I believe Gibbs started advertising A4 reproductions in the fall of 2007 or 2008. The early rifles suffered from a general lack of quality control in assembly (loose screws) and the first generation of scopes (FM Optics M73G1) were poor. The loose screws were easily tightened. Gibbs eventually transferred scope manufacture to a different producer who offers its products under the name of (take a deep breath here1) The Wm. Malcolm division of Leatherwood/ Hi Lux. The 2nd generation scopes are marked Malcolm M73G2.
So summing up Gibbs basically started this trend and carried it through the growing pains. I believe Gibbs also obtained many if not all of the drill rifles it used from the british firm Parker Hale. Since the receivers are a major component if company "a" got a significantly better price than company "b" on the basic drill rifle then it stands to reason that their final retail price may be lower.

Regards,
Jim

HILLBILLY-06
01-28-2013, 12:18 PM
I'd rather stick to the real thing.
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m284/FrankD/DSCN7721.jpg
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m284/FrankD/DSCN7722.jpg

DUDE! THOSE ARE MY GUNS...I think it's tottally cool that someone used my pics, but holy sh**! you might have said you at least barrowed my pics... LMAO... Funy, but freeky at the same time:)

HILLBILLY-06
01-28-2013, 12:19 PM
Sweet collection!
I just need a shooter for vintage matches and this is what I can afford.
-Ray

Yeah, that's not his collection its mine.. but thanks they are sweet..LOL:)