View Full Version : 1911 Erfurt Luger question.
05-12-2012, 02:15 PM
I have one which is real, real nice. No rust, no pitting, some straw colored parts, original grips and clip which is original to the gun, wooden bottom, but marked with a different serial number. All parts have the last two digits of the guns serial number on them.
My question is this.....The rear back strap does not have a fitting for the stock attachment but the front of the strap has the numbers and letters 4.(small case) F.(large case) 3.(large case) and 1.(small case) stamped on it. During my research on the gun I am led to believe that these numbers represent the unit in the German army, WW1 or earlier I guess, to whom the gun was issued.
Any insight into this? Thanks.
05-12-2012, 02:32 PM
That is correct. There is a book written by Jeff Noll on the unit markings and how to decipher them. The F could stand for Fussiler or Flieger (aviation) unit.
05-12-2012, 04:48 PM
Is the "F" a block letter like this or a script letter?
05-13-2012, 09:08 AM
Gamblelane, how do you get a Jeff Noll book or at least view it ? Thanks.
05-13-2012, 09:35 AM
The stock lug was not present till 1914 time frame which is when the artillery model was adopted, after that point in time they all came with lug.
05-13-2012, 12:09 PM
According to Pistole Parabellum (http://www.amazon.com/Luger-Pistole-Parabellum-History-System/dp/0889355185/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1336927317&sr=1-1) by Görtz and Sturgess:
With regard to the examples of unit markings applied according to D.V.E. Nr. 185, generally the first medium-sized number, if present, represents a Battalion or Regiment number, or the number of the equivalent-sized formation; the large letter(s) represent the Unit or Regimental formation type; the second medium-sized numeral represents the number of the Company or equivalent formation (such as a Cavalry Squadron) within the main (large letters) formation, and the final small numeral the individual weapon number among those of the same model in the Company.
F stands for Füsilier-Regiment.
Prussia made early use of the title "fusilier" for various types of infantry. Subsequently Prussia and several other German States used the designation Fusilier to denote a type of light infantry, dressed in green, that acted as skirmishers. The Prussian reforms of 1808 absorbed the Fusiliers as the third battalion of each line infantry regiment. Now wearing blue uniforms, they were distinguished by black leather belts, and a slightly different arrangement of cartridge pouch.
In the Prussian Army of 1870, the third battalions of all Guard, Grenadier and Line infantry regiments retained the designation 'Fusilier Battalion'. They were armed with a slightly shorter version of the Dreyse Rifle (Füsiliergewehr), that took a sword bayonet (Füsilier-Seitengewehr) rather than the standard socket bayonet. Although still theoretically skirmishers, in practice they differed little from their compatriots, as all Prussian infantry fought in a style that formed a dense 'firing' or 'skirmish' line.
By the 1880s the title was honorific and, while implying 'specialist' or 'elite', did not have any tactical significance. In a sense all infantry were becoming fusiliers, as weapons, tactics and equipment took on the fusilier characteristics - that is: skirmish line, shorter rifles, sword bayonets and black leather equipment. Nonetheless these titular units remained in existence until the end of the German Imperial Army in 1918
So your markings would be Füsilier-Regiment No. 4., Company No. 3, Waffe (gun, in this case a P.08 pistol) No. 1.
05-13-2012, 06:08 PM
Clip and grips are not original if the numbers have been stamped to another gun. Rick B