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-   -   Atomic .308 Ammo -- Please read! (http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=233021)

RickRandR 01-24-2015 04:09 PM

Atomic .308 Ammo -- Please read!
 
Got some Atomic 308 when the getting was good
down to bottom of the can and I'm getting neck splits & rim splits
shooting in a SA M1A NM
What causes this?
do I need to clean the gas cylinder?
Had 7 necks and 2 necks with rims and one about 3/8" above the rim
One of the rims blew the magazine down (and apart)
not fun single shooting standing free at the time in a match today
Gotta couple of plastic cans 200 left
Thanks:confused:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...g?t=1422047281

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...g?t=1422047288

rcolarco 01-24-2015 04:50 PM

Does the rifle do this with other ammunition? If not, it's the ammunition. I'm betting on an ammunition problem.

Do you need to clean the gas cylinder? Maybe. That is a functioning issue, a dirty gas cylinder is not going to cause what you are seeing.

edwardm 01-24-2015 05:14 PM

From Atomic's FAQ page:(http://atomicammunition.com/faqs.html)

"Will this ammunition cause wear and tear on my firearm?
Any ammunition will cause wear and tear on your firearm. Atomic ammunition is powerful and will accelerate the wear on your gun. We recommend replacing the recoil spring on pistols with increased power springs and checking all parts regularly."

That right there would make me FLEE from their products. Assuming the general statement at hand, what, are they loading +P 308 Win? :P

The neck splits look like bad annealing, if your rifle doesn't do that with other quality ammo (Winchester, Remington, Lake City, whatever...) The splits at the head/rim are could be bad annealing or poor alloying, or both. I wouldn't shoot that stuff in any of my rifles. I might pull it down and use the projectiles for something else, but that's it.

RickRandR 01-24-2015 05:35 PM

Atomic 308
 
They sold it as once fired brass
168 GR match load
Mostly LC brass
It does not do that with other reloads that I do
168 g LC mostly 41 gr IMR 4064
It was a very windy day didn't want to send my pretty
Nosler poly tips down there
I did shoot 20 of mine no prob the 20 prone last position
shot 35 Atomic sight in, Standing Free slow, Sitting rapid and Prone rapid
Glad it didn't bust my mag with 8 in the can :p

Shomway 01-24-2015 05:35 PM

Wasn't the Atomic that CMP sold reloaded military cases? Could that have been the problem?

Moorem1s 07-29-2016 07:12 PM

Exact same issue shooting atomic ammo out of my m1a yesterday at the trophy team match. Blew mag guts out with first shot in offhand. I'm pulling mine and reloading.

zippysrifle 07-29-2016 08:15 PM

I've got a can of it. After reading these comments, I'm going shoot it in a bolt gun. I bought it to try in my 308 M1. Not anymore. Just don't need the grief.

Old SGM 07-29-2016 10:26 PM

I bought a can from CMP when it was available. I got splits and slits on the brass and one round cracked the stock on the right side.
Since CMP had evidence that I had bought the ammo and the .308 rifle from it the stock was replaced.

GGaskill 07-30-2016 02:14 AM

Splits in the head area are very dangerous and should not be fired in any rifle. They let high pressure gas loose in the action which can do nothing but wrong. Pull the bullets and demill the cases.

GotSnlB28 07-30-2016 09:49 AM

Ugh. I have a few cans of this ammo that I bought from CMP. I have run through about 200 so far without any issues but this post has me worried. Was there a specific headstamp, mfg/year on your brass that failed or was it mixed? Unfortunately I don't see any lot # stamping on my boxes.

rcolarco 07-30-2016 03:39 PM

Once-fired military brass should not split. For that matter, many-times-fired military brass should not split. There is almost nothing you can do to military brass to make it split at the head consistently except load it very, very hot. Pull a few bullets and weigh some powder charges. You may be unpleasantly surprised.

I would not shoot this stuff at all without replacing the powder charges.

rcolarco 07-31-2016 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zippysrifle (Post 1498557)
I've got a can of it. After reading these comments, I'm going shoot it in a bolt gun. I bought it to try in my 308 M1. Not anymore. Just don't need the grief.

A head split will wreck a bolt gun as thoroughly as it will wreck a gas gun.

Major 07-31-2016 04:07 PM

I have three boxes of atomic 308 Match ammo.
It is labeled as Nosler Custom Competion 168 gr HPBT.

So 300 rounds of this stuff.

No lot number ... Is this the same ammo that you are reporting as bad

Has there been any recall on this ammo?

You guys are freaking me out. I do not want to have a desaster.

Maj

gtodan 07-31-2016 07:13 PM

I am curious why no recall?

Moorem1s 07-31-2016 09:40 PM

Case in question was stamped LC09. My coach was a retired Marine Gunny. She immediately came over after I fired and asked what the hell happened? It was definetely loaded hot and she agreed. My atomic ammo is mixed lake city as well as other makers. Like I said, I'm tearing mine down and reloading. I have fired many rounds of this with no problems. I had an incident last year at the m1a match where debris came back in my face after firing. It got my attention. I thought maybe a blown primer at the time. Looking back, it was another overcharged case.

rcolarco 08-01-2016 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtodan (Post 1499353)
I am curious why no recall?

You would have to ask Atomic. I would speculate a recall would put them out of business, which has happened before to small makers. After all, their FAQ does say their ammunition will accelerate wear on your firearm. A blowup is just "accelerated wear." You have been warned.

gtodan 08-01-2016 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcolarco (Post 1499722)
You would have to ask Atomic. I would speculate a recall would put them out of business, which has happened before to small makers. After all, their FAQ does say their ammunition will accelerate wear on your firearm. A blowup is just "accelerated wear." You have been warned.

Mebbe I will take a big, healthy crap in the box and send it all back. Let them sort it out.

RickRandR 08-17-2016 03:19 PM

atomic 308
 
Got a couple cans when the CMP first started selling them
Reloads supposedly once fire brass
Shot some ok
Had some with over pressure problems blown primers
And blew a couple of mag bottoms out
I still have a can and reluctant to shot in my M1A
What should I do about it?
200 rounds afraid to shoot

OSU1986 08-17-2016 03:40 PM

There is a older post from a few weeks ago you need to check it out.I cannot go back at this time to find it sorry.We had a head split that was real bad.

RickRandR 08-17-2016 03:52 PM

atomic 308
 
OSU
Thanks
Did a search saw a lot
Even saw my original post 1-24-15
I think I'm gonna call the CMP again about it
Maybe they were too busy to respond before now that the' re outta rifles they may have more time to deal with it

OSU1986 08-17-2016 04:44 PM

The head split we had was bad,the mag was blown out of the M1a1 and the white smoke was heavy.My son was only 15 at the time and he was a little ticked off,it was his new rifle.The rifle was fine and I was able to fix the mag.We still have about 15 rounds ,in the last can.Some day I will pull the bullets and weigh the powder.We had 3 cans at first because the wife picked up 308 special a few years back.We have never used any of the rounds left in the last can after the head split.

rcolarco 08-19-2016 09:40 PM

Not much you can do with the stuff. Break them down and save the bullets, unless they are 147s. You might try one load with the cases, then ditch them. Weigh a few powder charges and report in. I bet they are way high.

Blew a couple of mag bottoms out? I think I would have stopped at one.......

Check the disclaimer on Atomic's site. "Will accelerate wear on your rifle." A blown mag bottom is probably within their definition of accelerated wear.

24z1 10-21-2016 07:55 AM

RickRandR; Just had the same problem! Bought two plastic ammo cans when they first listed by CMP. On the 12th round thru my sons new Mossberg MVP Patrol rifle the case ruptured and blew off the extractor. I just marked it up to a bad case. Yesterday on the 3rd out of my Rem 700 the case rupture. Based on 2 ruptured cases in 15 rounds I decided to see if CMP forums had reported any Atomic ammo problems. Did CMP have any response?

rcolarco 10-21-2016 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 24z1 (Post 1529443)
RickRandR; Just had the same problem! Bought two plastic ammo cans when they first listed by CMP. On the 12th round thru my sons new Mossberg MVP Patrol rifle the case ruptured and blew off the extractor. I just marked it up to a bad case. Yesterday on the 3rd out of my Rem 700 the case rupture. Based on 2 ruptured cases in 15 rounds I decided to see if CMP forums had reported any Atomic ammo problems. Did CMP have any response?

Ominous silence.

It is the manufacturer's responsibility to fix defects, not the retailer's. You might try contacting Atomic. Good luck.

Coupled with the disclaimer on Atomic's site about "accelerated wear," and the multiple reports of blowups, I would just ditch the stuff. Sometimes you just have to cut your losses.

nyukx3fan 10-23-2016 07:43 PM

If you had a large group to sample from, could you weigh each case loaded and see if there a large variation in weight.. Pull the bullets from the one that has the largest and the smallest and weigh the powder

pmclaine 10-24-2016 07:06 AM

I think I bought 1200 rounds of Atomic and fired most of it through an AR10.

No issues at all. I must be lucky.

The brass is on its third loading.

Shomway 10-24-2016 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmclaine (Post 1530435)
I think I bought 1200 rounds of Atomic and fired most of it through an AR10.

No issues at all. I must be lucky.

The brass is on its third loading.

Finally some positive feedback!
Have shot a lot and still sitting on about 800 rounds.
Not a problem(yet) in my 7.62 Navy, M1A, or my Remington 700P.
Not the most accurate but not too bad.

Eagle Scout 10-24-2016 08:49 AM

Admittedly this is a small sampling but last year I pulled the Nosler Custom Competition 168 gr BTHP bullets of 19 rounds in a can purchased from CMP in 2012 and replaced them with Sierra GameKing 165's so I would have a few rounds to hunt with. For some reason I weighed the powder charges as I went along, and recorded a low charge of 41.2 grains; highest of 41.7; nine of 19 were 41.4 grains. Not stated on the label but IIRC Atomic used Varget powder. I have previously fired at least one 200 round can in my M1A and CMP Special with no ill results. Will probably check the charge in any I use going forward based on this and earlier thread.

pmclaine 10-24-2016 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shomway (Post 1530444)
Finally some positive feedback!
Have shot a lot and still sitting on about 800 rounds.
Not a problem(yet) in my 7.62 Navy, M1A, or my Remington 700P.
Not the most accurate but not too bad.

I agree on your assessment of the accuracy. I found things got a little better when I sorted my case head stamp.

The Atomic ammo was a good deal when ammo was in scarce supply. Kept me shooting and I have some good brass to load.

docsparks 10-25-2016 02:44 PM

Blew one up today.
 
I had grabbed a handful of the 308 win match atomic ammo rounds and took to the range. Springfield m1a loaded. On the seventh round the bottom of the magazine blew off, the spring and follower blew half way out of the magazine, I received some powder fragments to the cheek, and after finding the case I saw that the case had split at the extractor groove. I will try and post some photos. No promises. 1st link is case, 2nd link is magazine.

https://imgur.com/gallery/AXjs3

Any body know how I can display the photo please advise me how it's done.

https://imgur.com/gallery/jWTTL

edlmann 10-26-2016 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by docsparks (Post 1530873)
Any body know how I can display the photo please advise me how it's done.

First, crop and resize the pictures. Yours are huge in monitor display terms.

http://i.imgur.com/fQgif6e.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/BXeQITR.jpg

wghenderson 10-26-2016 02:04 PM

Atomic
 
The failure in the picture is identical to the 5 failures I have had with reconditioned LC brass. The load was 43 grains I4064 with 155 grain Nosler Custom Completion bullets. See,308 case fail thread.

W. G. Henderson

docsparks 10-26-2016 02:29 PM

Not shooting anymore
 
https://imgur.com/gallery/d4LCP

This has shaken my trust in this ammo.

https://imgur.com/gallery/PjJ9q

Major 10-26-2016 04:52 PM

Wow... I just sold a box of 100 rounds of this ammo at an auction and now I feel like a rat.
I think I should track down the buyer a get it back.

Has there been any recall of this ammo?
Any respectable manufacturer would recall this crap.

I still have 2 hundred more rounds of this crap.
What to do?

I visited the Atomic web site. Wow... It is not reassuring.

Sad,
Maj

YahooMarine 10-28-2016 12:26 PM

Like Major, I am sad about this ammo. I have only 1 can but am glad I never shot any of it. If anyone has any ideas about what to do besides breaking it down for components let me know.

Or, if anyone is in the Richmond,VA area and wants to stop by and make a small donation for it I am open to offers.

Rich

GGaskill 10-28-2016 03:18 PM

http://i.imgur.com/fQgif6e.jpg

That is a real interesting case split. Never seen one like that before. That lot of brass should be condemned. The pulled and weighed loads do not seem to be excessive.

Moorem1s 10-29-2016 11:08 AM

Exactly the same issue as I experienced this year during the team match at Perry. The photos are a carbon copy of the case split and magazine blowout. Curious if it's the same headstamp. I'll check when I Get home and post so we can compare.

docsparks 10-29-2016 02:12 PM

Head stamp info
 
The case that I had separate (the one in the picture) is lake city and is marked with the L C initial and 07 date with the NATO symbol.

Sorting through the unfired rounds I see lake city from 90's through 2010 with a few other various case brands.

I have been in contact with manufacturer,who while out of town on business has replied to my email and photos and asked me to completely discontinue using the ammo and we will be discussing this when he returns from trip this coming week.

So I will update and if anyone has had issues share them.

pmclaine 10-30-2016 07:14 AM

I just fired reloads of Atomic LC 07 (3rd firing - 1st probably through a mil machine gun, 2nd as an Atomic reload, 3rd as one of my 42 gr IMR 4895 under 175 SMK jobs).

I fired through a Remington 700 bolt.

Im not cheerleading Atomic. Obviously there are issues.

Im used to seeing separations slightly higher on the case, the stress type we check for with a paperclip related to too many firings.

Are these issues all M1A related? Sharp extractor? Violent load cycle.

Most of my Atomic was initially fired through an LMT (AR10) .308. Its a violent load cycle especially as the gun is overgassed but the extractor is not the beast a Garand/M1A claw is.

rcolarco 10-30-2016 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmclaine (Post 1532236)

Are these issues all M1A related? Sharp extractor? Violent load cycle.

There is nothing an M1A will "do" to brass to cause failures. The brass probably had defects before loading, either manufacturing-related or related to previous use.

The brass cracked through the web. The web is solid, except for the flash hole. My guess, and it is only a guess, is the brass was annealed improperly. Except for an extreme overload, that is the only thing I can think of that can cause a crack through the web. This defect was responsible for many, if not most, of the ammunition failures that blew up LN '03s.


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