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-   -   30 Carbine a truly viable PDW with new Hornady ammo (http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=90638)

imarangemaster 11-22-2012 02:12 AM

30 Carbine a truly viable PDW with new Hornady ammo
 
Hornady will be releasing its new "Critical Defense" 110 grain JSP ammo. It features a "flex tip" polymer insert in a hollow-point nose to insure slick feeding. I use Hornady Critical Defense ammo in my .380 CZ83 carry weapon. Very slick feeding.

It is loaded to its full potential at 2,000 fps from an 18" barrel. At 200 yards, it still has 400 pounds of muzzle energy, more than most 9mms at the muzzle.:D

Critical Defense® 30 Carbine from Hornady® - YouTube

Hornady Manufacturing Company :: Ammunition :: Rifle :: Choose by Caliber :: 30 Carbine :: 30 M1 CARBINE 110 GR FTX Critical Defense«

I have been happy with the R-P 110 JSPs, but am intrigued by this because of how exceptional Critical Defense ammo has been performing in other calibers.

Speer produces their Gold Dot in 30 carbine that is supposed to be exceptional, opening up to .602" diameter in ballistic gelatin. It is impossible to find, however, even though it was introduced in 2010.

M1 Carbines - M4Carbine.net Forums

7 ring 11-22-2012 04:10 PM

Thanks for the info.

Andykev 11-22-2012 04:36 PM

Interesting. The Hornady website says about this: "Unaffected by thick and heavy clothing, including denim and leather.

Regular military spec FMJ has penetrated three or 4 layers of Kevlar (bullet "proof" vest). Used to kill two local police officers at
a domestic disturbance. Rounds went through BOTH officers who were walking down a narrow hallway. Sad.
I think multiple hits are important, I recall that the "double tap" shots on a target impart a much larger "shock" and "killing" ability.
The ammo is about 50% more than regular Remington FMJ. It looks nice, but I'll stick with the regular ammo and just shoot more rounds.

imarangemaster 11-22-2012 04:54 PM

Remington 110 JSP works well. I killed a 200 pound deer with one heart-lung shot at almost 100 yards with R-P 110 JSP.

ABPOS 11-22-2012 07:49 PM

I'm with andy. Even the Doc's consensus was that ball ammo was pretty good, according to the diagrams I was looking at. Better than an Icepick. Now the remington jsp, speer and now the hornady might be better, but I don't think I'd sneeze at any of it. I think it's good to always have the edge, but sometimes some guys act like if you aren't using the top reported round, you're just throwing spitballs. And I disagree with that notion. I would not feel bad having FMJ 9mm's in my M9. Maybe I'm stupid, but in the winter up here, I'd rather have plenty of penetration over a HP round that might not penetrate once going through several layers of clothing. My requirements are: if it goes bang and feeds and doesn't have a tenancy to underpenetrate. But then again, I've never been shot at. Well, if you don't call being in the woods during deer season with a bunch of other guys. DOH. Just kidding. I've never had a close call that I know of in the woods.

imarangemaster 11-22-2012 08:43 PM

R-P 110 JSP penetrates VERY well. I shot through both sides of a USGI Kevlar helmet with the R-P 110 JSP, and through both panels of a IIIA ballistic vest, yet expanded in adeer and left a rather large wound channel.

spoon 11-22-2012 10:40 PM

Witnessed a 9mm FMJ shot 5 inches away from the right calf muscle, as in reholstering a M9 in a thigh rig with your finger on the trigger, that made a through and through wound with no expansion. It travelled the length of the muscle. Even with no expansion it took him out of the fight.

captaincalc 11-22-2012 11:59 PM

My main concern had been penetrating through other neighbor's houses - through bedrooms and the like. The way they build houses these days a 22 LR would go through a couple. Got my dad some magsafe ammo (long ago when he was still with us) for his carbine (as I recall) to cover the over penetration thing. I didn't worry about heavy clothing - figure any brigand would exit stage left soon as he perceived the flash and the bang(s). Wouldn't hang around to measure penetration or hole size either.

weimar_police 11-23-2012 03:13 PM

In using any round for defensive use, I want the best rounds, as I have read too many times of a bad guy still fighting after getting hit multiple times.

More rounds is fine for the range, but if you have a magazine set aside as defensive use, then I want rounds that stop the person.

I personally have never believed the 'thick' clothing stopping a round. Come on, if you shoot a 9mm, or a 30 carbine at 2x4's and it can go through how many; then how thick would the clothing have to be? :D

ABPOS 11-23-2012 03:47 PM

Well, from what I understand, after that LA shootout or Florida or whatever one it was, the FBI started to test rounds for penetration. And some HP's don't do so well in the penetration dept. That's how I understand it. Wood is NOT clothing than into flesh. There is no perfect medium, besides flesh itself. But ballistic gelatin comes the closest, so they say, for testing rounds.

You can load whatever you want. I have no problem with that.

Just my 2 cents and I'm not a LEO or ex military. Only thing I have any experience with is deer hunting. Scary thing is I've seen deer keep going for several moments and cover quite a distance with fatal wounds, before expiring. Even with them, there's no perfect round.


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