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* Avoid thread hi-jacking. Moderators will be looking for this and will more than likely split the topic if it gets too drastic, as well as take appropriate action where deemed necessary, to include deleting posts and/or enforcement action.
Please do not post the same question or post across multiple forums, or in the same thread. The best way to get the answers you are searching for is to post a clear single question in the appropriate forum and be patient, Replies will come. If you are in a hurry for a particular answer try using the search button or reading through replies to similar questions. It may just contain the information that you need. No need to post the same information again and again as this just clogs up threads/sub-forums.
Do not bump non-Marketplace threads as that can clutter the front page of a discussion forum. Posts bumping discussion threads will be deleted.
* Any members advertising their wares on the site without expressed permission will get banned. Personal items for sale in the classifieds are ok as long as the meet the criteria laid out in the site rules.
* Do not post any info, posts or threads regarding the process of going to the estore and artificially placing a large number of items in your cart simply for the purpose of seeing what inventory remains of an item carried on the estore!
This activity slows down the estore and can cause problems with it crashing, errors with people's orders, and inventory errors, particularly during periods of high demand/traffic.
Anyone making such posts on the forum will be warned once, then have their forum privileges suspended at least temporarily for a second violation. Further violations can result in permanent suspension.
* There will be no posting of links to, or copying information from listings on outside auctions/commercial sites, i.e. -- Gunbroker, Ebay, Armslist, Craigslist, Reddit, gun trader sites, etc, that are still active/live. We will not provide a platform for members to promote said auctions as there is no viable way to determine whether they or someone they know has a stake in the auction. Posts with this information will be removed. Continual violations will result in suspension of forum privileges. You may link to closed/completed auctions in the sake of education and learning.
* Users who post fake information, i.e. - name, location, in their profile, or otherwise provide/post false information/data about themselves will be instantly banned. Users who register multiple usernames will also be removed.
* Your account may be revoked at any time for any reason.
Generally, the following enforcement policy will apply:
1st offense - warning
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3rd offense - banned for one year
4th offense - banned permanently
** Depending on the nature of the offense/rule violation, first offense can result in ANY of the above enforcement actions.
ADDITIONAL RULES, TO INCLUDE MARKETPLACE/CLASSIFIED AD RULES:
1. Profile Requirements
To start a sale, buy or trade thread anywhere in the Marketplace, your Profile must contain:
A. Your FIRST and LAST name as well as your STATE of residence. Your profile privacy settings must be set to at least allow registered users the ability to view your profile info, i.e. - Not set to "Friends only."
B. You must "enable receive email and PM’s" in your Control panel if you intend to buy or sell.
Additionally, you must have a valid email address listed in your registration profile (which can only be viewed by moderators/admin in the vBulletin master page).
Users with obvious fake names, or using false names in their profile will be permanently removed from the forum without warning. PLEASE NOTE: When a member has failed to put their full names and location in their profile, their ads will be deleted WITHOUT NOTICE. You are responsible enough to be involved in firearm activity, so you can be responsible enough to read and understand the forum rules. The posted rules ARE your notice as they are posted throughout the forum. Threads/ads will be restored once a member has updated their profile with first and last name, and state.
2. The Marketplace is intended SOLELY for the mutual benefit of forum members as a resource to support each other's collecting and/or shooting goals.
It is NOT intended for, and will NOT be used by members as a repeated, for-profit venture/operation. This includes:
A. Purchasing items from members on the forum, then posting them for sale at a markup/profit on other commercial sites, i.e. – eBay, Gunbroker, etc.
B. Reselling items at a considerable markup that were recently purchased from CMP.
Members found to have clearly abused this policy will lose the ability to post in and use the Marketplace, and potentially have their forum privileges suspended, temporarily or permanently.
3. You may only list personally owned items, and/or request/WTB items for yourself. “Selling (or buying) this for a friend/family member” ads, and 3rd-party sales/purchases are prohibited.
Additionally, NO posting or linking to listings on eBay, Craigslist, Gunbroker, Reddit, or other outside auction/commercial sites. We will not have the items placed here also. List your product here, try to sell it here, then take it to eBay, Craigslist, Gunbroker, auction-arms, etc.
4. There will be no “auction style” selling here…If you post an item for sale and it says anything like "I will take the highest offer" it will be removed.
We ask that you list your item on just one forum, so there is not confusion and/or issues with an item being sold on another forum when someone attempts to purchase it here. If you do list and sell on another forum, it is your responsibility to immediately update your ad on our forum…if you do not, your privilege to post in the Marketplace and even the forum itself may be suspended, at least temporarily.
NOTE REGARDING 1911 PISTOLS PURCHASED FROM CMP: If you are considering selling a 1911/1911A1 you acquired directly from CMP, you MUST obtain approval from CMP1911ADMIN before listing it on the forum as purchasers of these weapons are not allowed to resell them as a condition of the purchase. You may reach him via PM or email: [email protected]
5. Vendors (or people selling large quantities of the same item as part of a commercial venture) must first contact a moderator or admin.
6. Omission of information is also known as fraud. It is wholly the responsibility of the person listing an item to describe it ACCURATELY and TRUTHFULLY.
Example: If you are selling a rifle stock that has a 9 inch crack in it you need to disclose that information to the buyer. Do not describe the item or tell the buyer that the stock has "light scratches" only.
If we determine that you defraud a member by failing to disclose facts about your items, your access to this section will be restricted and you may be permanently banned from the forum.
7. CLASSIFIED AD REQUIREMENTS
A. Briefly describe your item in the title, along with WTS, WTT or WTB.
B. We do not have any rules regarding notification of a purchase or trade in an ad...it can be accomplished via a post on the thread, a PM, an email, a phone call, a pigeon carrier, etc. However, if you set the terms of your sale, you must follow them! We do not require or enforce any conditions of purchase; however, if a member violates their own terms then they are subject to at least suspension from the Marketplace section. For example: If you say, "First 'I'll take it' gets it," and sell to someone via PM or email without updating your ad and someone posts they'll take it, that's on you. We will not be party to a dispute, but you WILL lose your privilege to post in the Marketplace as a minimum since you failed to follow your own conditions.
C. You must list a price, and make it easily visible, not just lost in the description. Ads without a price will be deleted. It is ok to list a price and OBO (or best offer); however, no auction-style listings
D. As noted in item #4, provide ALL and ACCURATE details. i.e color, size, caliber, year, make, model, condition, defects, etc
E. Post pictures, or at least the links to them. If you are unable to post pics, then make them available via e-mail.
F. List shipping, pick-up or delivery options for the buyer, as well as cost.
G. Be sure to mark your ad as "SOLD" once the items are sold.
8. Do not bump ads older than 90 days without moderator approval. Ads older than 90 days will be locked if they get bumped.
9. Do not bump an ad more than once within a 24-hour period. Ads bumped multiple times within 24 hours will be locked or deleted. Members who continually do this will have their ads locked or deleted, and will lose your privilege to post in the Marketplace.
10. Remove previous bump posts so as to keep the size of the threads to a minimum. Nobody wants to have to search through 4+ pages of "Bump" or "ttt" posts simply to find information on the item listed.
If not removed, mods will remove them and/or delete the thread if it gets out of hand.
11. If you commit to buy or sell, please contact the seller or buyer within 24 hours with a PM or email to make arrangements.
12. If an item is sold, please mark the thread as such. This will help eliminate the old threads coming back up, as well as help those looking for specific items.
13. For WTB items anywhere in the Marketplace:
- Only respond to a WTB ad if you possess the requested item or have specific knowledge of that item’s availability. For example, do not post, “Check eBay” or “Check Gunbroker.”
- Once you have found/purchased the item(s) desired, delete the thread so as to not waste other members' time and allow for other threads to have visibility.
14. Keep the classified threads clean of extraneous/fluff comments and questions, regardless of how innocent or praiseworthy. This prevents derailing the thread and generating wasteful, opinionated discussions, as well as surreptitious bumping of threads.
If you have a technical or knowledge question relating to a listed item, start a new thread or search and add to an existing thread.
If you want to thank or praise a seller or item, DON'T do it in the sale thread as it unnecessarily bumps a stale thread, and said comments will be deleted. Instead, do the person the courtesy of posting in the Buyer/Seller Feedback section here: http://forums.thecmp.org/forumdisplay.php?f=81
Basically, if you don't have a question DIRECTLY related to a sale/trade/purchase of a specific thread, don't post! And this particularly applies to stomping a member’s ad concerning their asking price as there is a tendency to post negative replies when someone lists an item for sale that others consider overpriced.
We will not tolerate members stomping another member's ad concerning their asking price.
This also includes posting low-ball offers. If you want to make an offer lower than the asking price, even if it states OBO, do it via PM or email.
If an item is sold and the listing member deleted the price (which is their prerogative) and you want to know what the price was, do NOT post in the thread…send the member a PM.
Those who continually stomp or hijack other member's ads will face temporary, and even permanent suspension of their forum privileges.
15. No duplicate or multiple threads in different sections for the same item. Pick one section, the most applicable, and post there. Additional duplicate threads will be deleted.
16. You may not use the signature block function to solicit purchases, trades and/or sales. That is why we have the Marketplace...post a thread with your specific WTB, WTS, WTT ad.
You may have up to two lines stating you are looking or searching for a particular rifle/weapon and serial number.
As with individual posts, signature blocks/lines are subject to the same forum rules and will be handled accordingly if they violate any forum rules, policies/procedures or take up too much room of a post.
OTHER TIPS/GUIDELINES
- Buyers and Sellers should verify each other’s identity before sending money and/or products. If possible, get each other’s phone number and have a quick conversation to confirm the transaction details.
- As a suggestion: sellers should consider using delivery confirmation to avoid conflicts from buyers; saying they never received the products.
- Buyers, get to know the seller a little before you blindly send cash. If something does not seem right; it probably isn't. If something seems too good to be true; it probably is. Contact a moderator or report a thread/post that appears to be a scam.
- Respect fellow members. This section is a great place to support/help out fellow members and occasionally make new friends. Please be respectful to your fellow members. Maybe try selling here to a member instead of eBay, maybe save them a buck or two. If you have any questions, problems or concerns feel free to contact a moderator or admin.
- We do not require members to keep ads, or keep a listing price in the thread. It is your ad, so you are free to delete it at your discretion, as well as remove the asking price if you so desire. If someone is curious about the price for what an item sold, contact the seller via PM…do NOT post in thread.
- Lastly, don't forget the <b>Buyer/Seller Feedback section</b> http://forums.thecmp.org/forumdisplay.php?f=81
Be sure to express a good or bad experience with your buyer or seller, and let others know what to expect. Also be sure to check there for a member if you are concerned BEFORE you buy.
MODERATION RULES/ENFORCEMENT
1. All spammers get banned instantly and permanently.
2. Inappropriate or out of hand threads shall be closed with or without reason posted for the closure or deleted at the discretion of the Mods/Admins.
3. If you cannot follow the rules set forth, your posts may be deleted, removed, or edited by the Moderators.
4. If you repeatedly do not follow the rules set forth, you will be banned from this section or from the CMP Forum for any length of time from 2 days to permanently, at the discretion of the Moderators.
NOTE: These rules can change at any time. Administrators and Moderators have the right to make any decision that fits the website and its users.
DISCLAIMER
The CMP, any of its staff and forum administrators/moderators assume NO liability or responsibility for Marketplace transactions. Members will use at their own risk, and CMP will not be responsible for any disputes or claims between members involving a transaction.
The Civilian Marksmanship Program forum is intended primarily to be a technically-oriented website for professional, courteous, and intellectual discussion of CMP matches, activities, firearms and related events. We are an online community founded by enthusiasts, for enthusiasts, of all ages and walks of life. Remember that we have youth CMP participants who view this site. Please enjoy your stay and with your help, we can make the CMP Forums safe for all.
The opinions and posts on this site do not necessarily reflect those of The Civilian Marksmanship Program.
If you have any questions, please contact a Moderator
I am assuming they used the 173 gr bullet for 1000 yds and today a 175 grain would be okay? Did they use a Shuster gas plug or the issue one ? I ask this because I am now planning on taking a Garand beyond 600 yds and push to 800 and then 1000 yds . Unfortunately, there is no one (alive) around here that has done it and shows up at our club range days.
I seem to remember reading it was the 173's, I do not remember anything about adjustable plugs though. I know a guy who shot comp in the chair force, I'll see if he remembers.
Don't know about the details, but I'm betting they used the standard gas plugs. Based on my Dad talking about qualifying at 1000 yards in basic training (Army, 1952) - I can't even imagine they'd be teaching recruits on anything other than bog-standard rifles with whatever issue ammo was in stock at the time.
For competition, I have no idea, but am curious to find out as I'd love to try some 100-yard shooting eventually with my own Garand.
s/f
Andy M
NRA, MSRPA, MSI, SAF
Former USMCR, still a Jarhead
Don't know about the details, but I'm betting they used the standard gas plugs. Based on my Dad talking about qualifying at 1000 yards in basic training (Army, 1952) - I can't even imagine they'd be teaching recruits on anything other than bog-standard rifles with whatever issue ammo was in stock at the time.
For competition, I have no idea, but am curious to find out as I'd love to try some 100-yard shooting eventually with my own Garand.s/f
Well, if you live in MD... Quantico is just a short trip and I plan to do this 1000 yd shooting so stay in touch, we shoot on weekends . The ideal day is when we do a Sunday 800 / 1000 yard day. This would require you have your 600 yd dope but heck, we can swag it and get you on paper at 800 the finalize the sight settings..then press to 1000 and do the same. Just let me know if interested, I'll sponsor you to shoot with our club and as RSO, I am allowed a guest.
I am assuming they used the 173 gr bullet for 1000 yds and today a 175 grain would be okay? Did they use a Shuster gas plug or the issue one ? I ask this because I am now planning on taking a Garand beyond 600 yds and push to 800 and then 1000 yds . Unfortunately, there is no one (alive) around here that has done it and shows up at our club range days.
Thanks in advance.
Prior to 1958 rifles used in National Match competition had to be "service rifle as issued". No specially manufactured parts. Things like Shuster gas screw was not available and would not have been allowed if available. For the 1957 shooting season and the 1957 National Matches the T-291 cartridge was being used and made by both Lake City and Frankford Arsenals. The ammunition used in the 1957 National Matches was all Frankford Arsenal manufacture, Lot FA-11. It was loaded with a boat-tailed bullet weighing about 173 grains, in front of 47.8 grains of IMR 4895, and a Remington # 72 Primer. Muzzle velocity runs about 2700 fps, and pressure about 44,000 lbs psi. The ranges fired in NM compitition with this ammo were 200, 300, 600 and 1000 yds
The above information is quoted from bulletin by "Headquarters, 1957 National Matches, Ordnance Office, dated 7 Aug. 1957. "Details on the .30 Match Ammunition".
Prior to 1958 rifles used in National Match competition had to be "service rifle as issued". No specially manufactured parts. Things like Shuster gas screw was not available and would not have been allowed if available. For the 1957 shooting season and the 1957 National Matches the T-291 cartridge was being used and made by both Lake City and Frankford Arsenals. The ammunition used in the 1957 National Matches was all Frankford Arsenal manufacture, Lot FA-11. It was loaded with a boat-tailed bullet weighing about 173 grains, in front of 47.8 grains of IMR 4895, and a Remington # 72 Primer. Muzzle velocity runs about 2700 fps, and pressure about 44,000 lbs psi. The ranges fired in NM compitition with this ammo were 200, 300, 600 and 1000 yds
The above information is quoted from bulletin by "Headquarters, 1957 National Matches, Ordnance Office, dated 7 Aug. 1957. "Details on the .30 Match Ammunition".
Exactly my experience when I shot on U.S.M.C. teams in the 1960's, except the rifles had the allowable NM parts and tuning
I have only shot 1000 yards one time. I used 168 gr Nosler CC BTHP over 46.5 gr of Varget and CCI 34 primers in HXP brass. Bullets were still supersonic and stable when they hit the target. I was using a Garandgear plug, but I don't think that I needed it.
“If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed, if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a small chance of survival. There may even be a worse case: you may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.” - Winston Churchill
What size are the targets at 1000 yards and what's the typical accuracy? Are you just lobbing them out there for volly type fire or are there groups?
I sure won't be doing volley fire but I will report my accuracy once I shoot 1000 yds here at Quantico. Perhaps others who used to shoot M1's at this distance can comment on their accuracy (group size). Score rings are large so for me, a score doesn't tell me accuracy of rifle & load but of course scores win matches so its all opinion .
I'm one of the old guys who actually shot 1000 Yards with an AFPG M1 on the El Paso Del Norte range back in the early 60's. I'll attest that the M1 shot very well at 1000 Yards and I still have the medal to prove it. We shot M72 ammo, LC63. I still have a couple of rounds.
I'm one of the old guys who actually shot 1000 Yards with an AFPG M1 on the El Paso Del Norte range back in the early 60's. I'll attest that the M1 shot very well at 1000 Yards and I still have the medal to prove it. We shot M72 ammo, LC63. I still have a couple of rounds.
I've had this desire to do the Garand at a Grand for 10 yrs now, I am now going to kick this can and get it done. Its good to read you had success at 1000 yds and I appreciate your posting that .
So, I did some searching and found almost this same discussion from a few years back (http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=57812), that answered a couple of questions but raised some more.
It sounds like Hornady, for one, makes an M1-safe 168gr match ammo that could be used at least for club events (haven't dug into the CMP match regs). Is there a consensus on that as a good round to use? Looks like it runs about $1.25-$1.30/rd these days, which isn't bad.
How about targets? I assume those are specified in the rule I just haven't read yet, but for me I also want to find something I can use on a 100-yard range (all I normally have available) for simulating 200/300/600 yards. Any suggestions for that?
And yes, I'll go search the old threads some more, but since this is a fresh discussion...
Thanks in advance and all that!
Andy M
NRA, MSRPA, MSI, SAF
Former USMCR, still a Jarhead
I don't want to rain on anybody's parade but with a 10 MPH Xwind, the bullet drifts slightly over 10 feet in 1000 yards. I don't think there are enough clicks in a M1 Garand rear sight to move the POI 10 feet at that range. So essentially we are talking about luck here. The bullet also drops about 415 inches which is 34 feet. I rest my case.
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I rest my case.
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