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ACampComLegacy 10-12-2017 02:27 PM

What about HOA's?

In CA, it sure seems to me that they'd reserve funds first and foremost for PRIVATE / Charter flight ops for water or retardant drops???????

ed.:
Or even have a drop program set up on paper, WITH ADJUSTED HOME OWNERS PREMIUMS, DEFERRED / ADJUSTED DEDUCTIBLES ???

howardhuge 10-12-2017 02:43 PM

Larry Glad to hear the fire didn't move to you. The Fires are spread over a large area ...air tankers can only do so much... In medicine its Triage .... same here the homes that can be saved with resources at hand get the Tankers. What is MOST disturbing to me is the lack of info on the CAUSE of all this...its not lightning or a Cigar....its deliberate Arson .... in my O Pine.... by the nature of the calls times and location. My Cousin is a FF out of San Jose...hes working like a dog... this is flat awful event. I can assure from personal experience the Air Tanker folks and FF are doing their best...Thankless Job.

lapriester 10-12-2017 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by howardhuge (Post 1646777)
Larry Glad to hear the fire didn't move to you. The Fires are spread over a large area ...air tankers can only do so much... In medicine its Triage .... same here the homes that can be saved with resources at hand get the Tankers. What is MOST disturbing to me is the lack of info on the CAUSE of all this...its not lightning or a Cigar....its deliberate Arson .... in my O Pine.... by the nature of the calls times and location. My Cousin is a FF out of San Jose...hes working like a dog... this is flat awful event. I can assure from personal experience the Air Tanker folks and FF are doing their best...Thankless Job.

I actually strongly suspect the cause will be failed, downed or slapping PG&E utility lines. Hurricane force 80 MPH gusts will do that everytime even on the best maintained systems which PG&E's are not. Given the terrain where these fires started the lines are the most suspect cause.

I would have glady kissed the ****** of the pilots of the DC10 that was dropping in the valley below me during the Valley Fire. They saved every home on the mountain I live on.

DaveHH 10-12-2017 07:46 PM

Today lots of fire trucks moving into area and some air tankers (C130s) are flying into the airport. The problem is that while a plan was being put together, the fire grew and smaller fires started. They don't have a chance of getting this thing out anytime soon. To show you how crazy California is: The Cal Fire official who apparently is in charge and making decisions was saying that they plan on bringing in firemen from Australia. That makes a lot of sense. Why not India? Meanwhile a lot of great people are busting their asses dealing with reality. Saw Gavin Newsom and Mike Thompson on TV today telling us what a great job they are doing. God help us.

ACampComLegacy 10-12-2017 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveHH (Post 1646871)
Today lots of fire trucks moving into area and some air tankers (C130s) are flying into the airport. The problem is that while a plan was being put together, the fire grew and smaller fires started. They don't have a chance of getting this thing out anytime soon. To show you how crazy California is: The Cal Fire official who apparently is in charge and making decisions was saying that they plan on bringing in firemen from Australia. That makes a lot of sense. Why not India? Meanwhile a lot of great people are busting their asses dealing with reality. Saw Gavin Newsom and Mike Thompson on TV today telling us what a great job they are doing. God help us.

India. LOL. "Please listen carefully, as our FIREFIGHTING options have recently changed. Due to heavy call volume, wiat time may be extended. To leave a callback #, ... Para Espanol, oprima el numero uno. Para conflagracion, vaya con Dios, y ademas, haul a55 AHORA!"

HB of CJ 10-13-2017 02:42 AM

Resources Coming In From All Over? ...
 
An informed reliable source tells me fifty, (50) Engines will be or have been sent from the State of Oregon as of around 12 noon, PDT, Wednesday, 11 October, 2017. No mention of Apparatus type, responding Agencies, staffing levels or support personal. This is getting serious. :(

A question that must be asked is why this did not happen at the get go? And ... is Cal Fire more about smoke and mirrors, (pun not intended) and less about hard fire suppression endeavors? From Australia? WTF? But there will always be detractors, including me. Not good. :(

The Federalization of the American Fire Service Continues. Did not used to be like this. Each Agency had detailed plans, both Automatic Aid and Mutual Aid with neighboring fire agencies within the State. Not Nationally. Not Internationally. But how else would it all happen? :(

I guess this fire complex would qualify as "The Big One!".

DaveHH 10-13-2017 09:50 AM

2800 homes burned just in Santa Rosa. "Peanuts" creator Charles Schultz's estate burned to the ground. Wind expected tonight to be 50 mph in some of the fire areas.

lapriester 10-13-2017 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HB of CJ (Post 1646925)
An informed reliable source tells me fifty, (50) Engines will be or have been sent from the State of Oregon as of around 12 noon, PDT, Wednesday, 12 October, 2017. No mention of Apparatus type, responding Agencies, staffing levels or support personal. This is getting serious. :(

A question that must be asked is why this did not happen at the get go? And ... is Cal Fire more about smoke and mirrors, (pun not intended) and less about hard fire suppression endeavors? From Australia? WTF? But there will always be detractors, including me. Not good. :(

The Federalization of the American Fire Service Continues. Did not used to be like this. Each Agency had detailed plans, both Automatic Aid and Mutual Aid with neighboring fire agencies within the State. Not Nationally. Not Internationally. But how else would it all happen? :(

I guess this fire complex would qualify as "The Big One!".

One could argue this in two ways. CalFire didn't request aid from Oregon soon enough (doubtfull) or Oregon didn't send it until Wednesday....or it didn't arrive until Wed. Remember, the severity and scope wasn't fully realized until Monday morning late. Assets arriving from Oregon on Wed is not an unreasonable length of time even if requested on Monday. They don't exactly travel all the way at Code 3 and it takes a minimum of a day or more just to prep to leave.

I see no blame to point to or assume here.

aimit 10-13-2017 12:13 PM

You are right Larry. The other states that are sending firefighters have to draw these people from all different areas so as not to leave thier own state without protection. Getting all these people and thier equipment into a staging area to make the trip just takes time. I also see no blame here. A fire like this, coming in just a couple of hours with no warning, is overwhelming to any emergency services, including fire, police, and medical.

Ohio Don 10-13-2017 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lapriester (Post 1646971)
One could argue this in two ways. CalFire didn't request aid from Oregon soon enough (doubtfull) or Oregon didn't send it until Wednesday....or it didn't arrive until Wed. Remember, the severity and scope wasn't fully realized until Monday morning late. Assets arriving from Oregon on Wed is not an unreasonable length of time even if requested on Monday. They don't exactly travel all the way at Code 3 and it takes a minimum of a day or more just to prep to leave.

I see no blame to point to or assume here.

In our state, when assets were asked for it could easily take 3 days to get there.The call might come on a Monday around noon to a local field station. That day, the crews would be told that Tuesday, they would load and prep for movement. Tuesday would be spent loading and tying down the equipment, filling coolers, and getting plans for trip ready. Wednesday would be spent traveling in a convoy. As we have statewide wideload permits, we can go anywhere but not at a great rate of speed. To get to Pensacola, from here would take a 12+ hour drive at the speed our cranes are limited to. As we abide by the CDL rules, that means either two drivers or you have to stop after 10 hours in the seat. So that means on Thursday morning they would be ready to go to work at the soonest. When things are non-emergency, they leave on Mondays and return the people after two weeks. With other crews just driving up in a van or three for the next two week shift. This has been done a number of times with the people making at least two rotations.

HB of CJ 10-13-2017 12:55 PM

Secure Internal Fire Communications? ...
 
We all got the special E-mail, Pager and Cell phone messages at the same time at about 12.25 pm, PDT, Wednesday, 11 October, 2017. I can go back and check the time stamp if needed.

But a good point was raised. I think we got the special-call Out-Of-State call out at the same time our local Fire Chief did. Same process? Same equipment? Again I have no specifics.

But ... what we got and what the Chief got may have been on different systems and perhaps he got what he got earlier. A possibility. I also do not know what Agency had to send what.

Two quick points. First ... why Australia? Why? How? Response Time? Why would the PIO, (public information officer) talk about asking for resources from clear across the Pacific Ocean?

From past personal experience, when a Fire Agency starts talking political when they should be focusing on public safety makes me wonder if Cal Fire screwed the pooch? Just wondering.

Second. Yep ... it appears Cal Fire greatly reduced air retardant drop capability. Why? Was this from C.A.R.B., (California Air Resources Board) or did it come from someplace else. Politics?

Last. (that is three!) Response times. Days, not hours. Hours, not minutes. Minutes not seconds. Entirely different from a quick large ISO Class One initial structure fire response. Different.

All we DO NOT NEED right now is a major regional Earthquake. Yikes! :(

Respectfully.

Ohio Don 10-13-2017 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HB of CJ (Post 1647001)
We all got the special E-mail, Pager and Cell phone messages at the same time at about 12.25 pm, PDT, Wednesday, 11 October, 2017. I can go back and check the time stamp if needed.

But a good point was raised. I think we got the special-call Out-Of-State call out at the same time our local Fire Chief did. Same process? Same equipment? Again I have no specifics.

But ... what we got and what the Chief got may have been on different systems and perhaps he got what he got earlier. A possibility. I also do not know what Agency had to send what.

Two quick points. First ... why Australia? Why? How? Response Time? Why would the PIO, (public information officer) talk about asking for resources from clear across the Pacific Ocean?

From past personal experience, when a Fire Agency starts talking political when they should be focusing on public safety makes me wonder if Cal Fire screwed the pooch? Just wondering.

Second. Yep ... it appears Cal Fire greatly reduced air retardant drop capability. Why? Was this from C.A.R.B., (California Air Resources Board) or did it come from someplace else. Politics?

Last. (that is three!) Response times. Days, not hours. Hours, not minutes. Minutes not seconds. Entirely different from a quick large ISO Class One initial structure fire response. Different.

All we DO NOT NEED right now is a major regional Earthquake. Yikes! :(

Respectfully.

Why on Australia? Because they actually do have a good bit of aerial equipment and know how to use it. The US in the past has sent equipment down there also when they had major fires. The Pacific is just a bigger pond. ;) And yes, from what I've read, CA got rid of a lot of their aerial stuff as have many of the states and Canada.

DaveHH 10-13-2017 02:19 PM

From "The Gazette" dated June 2012
 
"Washington-based Human Events magazine reported in September of 2011 that nearly half of the federal government’s air tankers sat idle at a California airport, as wildfires ripped through national forests throughout California, Texas, New Mexico, and other states.
It turns out the Obama administration ended a long-standing contract, leaving the Forest Service with only 11 tankers to battle 50 wildfires that were burning nationwide. A decade ago, the Forest Service had 40 firefighting tankers.
The Obama administration canceled the government’s contract with Aero Union — a company with 60 employees that had been under contract with the Forest Service for 50 years. Though it canceled that contract, the administration had no plan for an immediate replacement. Aero Union CEO Britt Gourley told Human Events the administration provided no details on why the contract was ended.
“They didn’t want to talk about it,” Gourley said of Obama administration officials.
A Forest Service official said the contract was cancelled over safety concerns, but the company had recently passed its annual inspection.
We can try connecting dots and presume the Obama administration is more enthused with environmental activism than effective fire suppression."

Apparently the problem was slurry killing fish and the use of fire retardant slurry.

lapriester 10-13-2017 02:38 PM

You also have to realize that in Oregon fire season is winding down and temporary extra assets are and were in the process of being disbanded. I'm currently in Central Oregon and on October 3 they re-opened debris burning season in the district I'm in. That means it's OK to burn open piles of pine needles and other debris in your back yard. Add to that is the fact that Oregon has started their prescribed/control burn burning season and assets are committed to those. Just last week they had multiple burns in progress. At least Oregon has the common sense to ignor the tree huggers and thin and burn heavy growth to create reasonable buffer zones and fire breaks. It's time for Californians to get a life and realize that trees don't hug back in a fire.

HB of CJ 10-13-2017 06:09 PM

Less Than Five, (5) Minutes To Get Out Of The Fire House ...
 
Used to be all the wild fire special call stuff was pre staged in the fire house. The fire personal boggie bags, Crew stuff like tents, bags, sleeping pads, cots, food, lots of water, etc., etc., were already to go but not yet all piled on the responding apparatus. Then we just loaded and boggied.

Self contained for three days. A service utility usually traveled with us.

Even out of town special calls only took less than five, (5) minutes to go. Then off we went. Not days. Not hours. In our case just a few minutes. Sometimes less. My job was making sure the apparatus was ready NOW. Everything. If it was not then it was my neck on the block. Yikes!

Fire Engineer. Some time ago. I imagine the greatest delay was our Fire Chief getting legal permission from the City Manager to boogie with the strike force. Ordinary fire responses usually took just a tad over one, (1) minute. Slightly longer at night. The standards then were very high.

Back then we just had a big stash of city maps of where we might end up. Today I believe all the apparatus has computer screen assisted maps and GPS. Things have certainly gotten easier compared to the days when we rode the tail board and fire alarm boxes were still used. No cell phones.

CounterMeasure 10-14-2017 12:22 AM

When my dad was an Ag pilot, he and the planes he flew were all certified by the US Forestry service for fire duty. Certified for years, and *never* called into service once.

Even with central Texas was burning a few years back, and they called in the expensive 10-Tanker (one of the DC-10s) from out of state while he was ~200 miles away and could have stayed with us, still not called up.

The only time he did any fire control was when he flew near a burning field and the fire fighters were figuring out how to control it. He took it upon himself to come back, reload with water, and dump lines for them until it was out. They truly appreciated it.

It always felt like there was more to the system than just having personnel and equipment, but some type of preference or pecking order. Which is wrong. People whose houses are in danger of total loss don't care whom dumps water or retardant on the fire near it, as long as it happens to save possibly all they own.

I pray for those already in the paths as well as those still in line for it, and hope those in charge get their act together soon.

Ohio Don 10-14-2017 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lapriester (Post 1647042)
You also have to realize that in Oregon fire season is winding down and temporary extra assets are and were in the process of being disbanded. I'm currently in Central Oregon and on October 3 they re-opened debris burning season in the district I'm in. That means it's OK to burn open piles of pine needles and other debris in your back yard. Add to that is the fact that Oregon has started their prescribed/control burn burning season and assets are committed to those. Just last week they had multiple burns in progress. At least Oregon has the common sense to ignor the tree huggers and thin and burn heavy growth to create reasonable buffer zones and fire breaks. It's time for Californians to get a life and realize that trees don't hug back in a fire.

Florida also does prescribed burns. We never call them controlled burns because 9 times out of 10, they get out of control. When one did, the first thing they did was call our agency and ask if we could raise the water level for them. Then they'd bring in a chopper with a Bambi bucket. And dump fish on the fire.

DJEinConcord 10-14-2017 12:10 PM

Since the fires started Sunday night the entire SF Bay Area has been shrouded in thick smoke. From Concord to Oakland every day I traveled this week has been the worst air quality on record. You seldom see people wearing masks. But this week I saw many commuters donning them.

From my office in Oakland I could usually see the entire Bay Area, but this week visibility was a mile or two. SFO reportedly cancelled flights. Nasty.

This morning was the first time we have seen blue skies in almost a week

fred peterson 10-14-2017 11:59 PM

Though registered on the forum since 2011 have only posted a couple of times, but felt I had to chime in on this subject. I've lived in Dry Creek Valley/Northern Sonoma County for the past 34 years and for 30 years have been a volunteer fire fighter with the Geyserville FPD and when in college spent 2 summers on a US Forest Service firefighting crew. Been to a few fires and went out on a couple of out of county strike teams. During the Oakland Hills fire storm of 1991, I spent that first night on a water tender up on the Geysers east of Geyserville, witnessing crazy fire and fire winds and listening on the radio to what was happening in Oakland. We had the same conditions, but without the thousands of homes. We lost some transformers and geothermal infrastructure and killed a few rattlesnakes and jack rabbits, but no humans were hurt or killed. In the hills east of town we have one of the 10 fires that started last Sunday night, when the close to hurricane force winds came down from the northeast. We also had another fire start at the same time off of Chalk Hill Rd in Alexander Valley that we were able to knock down that night. I agree with Larry P that most, if not all, of these fires were caused by the electrical grid. Either downed power lines, arcing power lines or power poles blown down. The winds were that strong (especially in the west facing hills above 1,000'). Once the fires were ignited the winds fanned the flames to create the firestorm. I calculated that it took the Tubbs Fire , the fire that has caused the most death and destruction,(started at corner of Tubbs Ln/highway 128/Calistoga) less than 3 hours to travel over 12 miles from the point of origin to where it ended up in Santa Rosa after jumping the 6 lane Highway 101. Just that fire would have overwhelmed the local fire resources, but when you add another 9 fires in the same region at the same time, it becomes impossible to manage. You cannot effectively fight "firestorms". You can get as many people out of the way as you can and make sure that you don't get burned over. The Pocket Fire in Geyserville (now over 13,000 acres) didn't receive any air attack or additional resources until 40 hours after the fire began. We had 2 Cloverdale engines, 1 Geyserville, two private dozers, two private water tenders and a Cal Fire utility pick-up with two firefighters until Tuesday evening when the cavalry starting arriving (first two strike teams were USFS and BLM, both from Eastern Oregon). The immediate need (adjoining counties) strike teams were going to Santa Rosa, Sonoma Valley and Napa, because thats where the people were and are a higher priority. We are pretty good in California (and rest of the western U.S.) dealing with big fires and have a whole organization in place to dispatch resources once requests are made (mutual aid system). But it isn't just the fire engines/bulldozers/air tankers/hand crews, it is also overhead (management teams) and logistics (food, fuel, etc). Then you throw in the law enforcement portion for traffic control, road blocks, dealing with looters. It really is like a large military operation and like those, often doesn't go smoothly. The IAP (Incident Action Plan) for todays operation in northern Sonoma (Pocket and Tubbs Fires) ran 50 pages, with objectives, resources, assignments, air ops, logistics, LE, radio frequencies etc. Geyserville had 1 engine and our water tender in Santa Rosa for the first 36 hours and seeing video and hearing the stories, it was crazy. There was no command/control happening (and really, how good could it be with what was going on that first night). They did a lot of good, both getting people evacuated, as well as keeping the Luther Burbank Center (music venue) and the Kaiser Hospital from burning up. As of today on the Pocket Fire near Geyserville the forecast winds never developed and it looks like the fire lines will hold, keeping fire out of the Geysers geothermal complex and River Rock Casino (both big money sources for Sonoma County) and only having lost two homes.
South of us in Rincoln and Sonoma Valleys and Napa the fire still rage and continue to burn homes, businesses (including wineries). I hope I don't live long enough to see another one like this.

microwaveguy 10-20-2017 09:08 AM

With the rain that was forecast for last night it looks like the last of the fires have been knocked down. I can't recall another urban fire like this in a longtime anywhere in the US.

The missing person list is still fairly long. My family made it unscathed but many people that we know haven't been so fortunate.

If there is any bright side to any of this there are going to be a lot of construction jobs starting in the spring.

ACampComLegacy 10-21-2017 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by microwaveguy (Post 1648505)
With the rain that was forecast for last night it looks like the last of the fires have been knocked down. I can't recall another urban fire like this in a longtime anywhere in the US.

The missing person list is still fairly long. My family made it unscathed but many people that we know haven't been so fortunate.


If there is any bright side to any of this there are going to be a lot of construction jobs starting in the spring.

There's a bright side to EVERY bump in the road.

What makes life better is staying focused on that bright 'side'. A little easier said than done, but TRUTH none-the-less..............

howardhuge 10-21-2017 06:03 PM

What makes life better is staying focused on that bright 'side'. A little easier said than done, but TRUTH none-the-less..............
Well said. Enjoy the time you have brother because its short. I use to sweat everything.... a Life changing event changed my thought process...every day we are Blessed even when it seems were beaten down.

Silent Rock 10-23-2017 11:57 AM

There have been several complaints posted on the forum about the way "The Fires" in Sonoma and Napa Counties were handled by police and fire personnel. I understand that everyone who lives in the areas that these fires occurred have their own experiences and perspectives. My neighborhood in Santa Rosa was completely destroyed. It was almost one square mile of residential homes. Three residents in my immediate neighborhood died in this fire. The homes on my short section of street miraculously survived.

i want to say that I cannot commend the performance of the first responders highly enough. I have spoken with a number of the Santa Rosa Police Officers and Firemen and heard what they did to save lives at the risk of their own lives and have a fair understanding of what they experienced. That fire was unstoppable with the number of personnel that was availble when it reached Santa Rosa.

I understand that those who lost everything they had probably have a much different perspective than mine. I have friends and neighbor that escaped with the clothes they were wearing and the vehicles that they were driving and nothing more.

I still hope that before finger pointing and complaining that everyone would first consider all the positive things that our First Responders accomplished during the terror and chaos of that night.
Silent Rock

lapriester 10-23-2017 06:32 PM

+1 x 10

ACampComLegacy 10-24-2017 12:15 PM

Someone here probably remembers one of these gov't 'prescribed burns' within the last 10 years or so, that got out of hand, and endangered one of the science facilities to the extreme. Don't remember if it was JPL, or Los Alamos; it was somewhere out West.

I was quite surprised by the admission (although there might have been no denial); whether 'prescribed' by gov't local, or state, or Fed...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohio Don (Post 1647145)
Florida also does prescribed burns. We never call them controlled burns because 9 times out of 10, they get out of control.

...

-------------------------------
-------------------------------


I gotta' see it in like manner as CounterMeasure does here...

I venture that in fire response calls NOWADAYS more-so than ever, there are phone discussions to the Nth degree, along with signatures on paper (you know how long THAT takes), about whose re-election campaigns need help, before personnel or equipment gets dispatched, and from WHICH jurisdiction.

And I'm sure many at the lower levels took it upon themselves to 'act now, pay later', and did well (although they may pay dearly later).


Quote:

Originally Posted by CounterMeasure (Post 1647143)

...

It always felt like there was more to the system than just having personnel and equipment, but some type of preference or pecking order. Which is wrong. People whose houses are in danger of total loss don't care whom dumps water or retardant on the fire near it, as long as it happens to save possibly all they own.

...

If such wildfires were in suburbs of DC, in which many Fed Legislators lived, would such a conflagration burned so much???

Ohio Don 10-24-2017 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silent Rock (Post 1649192)
There have been several complaints posted on the forum about the way "The Fires" in Sonoma and Napa Counties were handled by police and fire personnel. I understand that everyone who lives in the areas that these fires occurred have their own experiences and perspectives. My neighborhood in Santa Rosa was completely destroyed. It was almost one square mile of residential homes. Three residents in my immediate neighborhood died in this fire. The homes on my short section of street miraculously survived.

i want to say that I cannot commend the performance of the first responders highly enough. I have spoken with a number of the Santa Rosa Police Officers and Firemen and heard what they did to save lives at the risk of their own lives and have a fair understanding of what they experienced. That fire was unstoppable with the number of personnel that was availble when it reached Santa Rosa.

I understand that those who lost everything they had probably have a much different perspective than mine. I have friends and neighbor that escaped with the clothes they were wearing and the vehicles that they were driving and nothing more.

I still hope that before finger pointing and complaining that everyone would first consider all the positive things that our First Responders accomplished during the terror and chaos of that night.
Silent Rock

I don't think that people were faulting the local FD people. I think it more was directed at Cal Fire.

And ACampComLegacy, that was the one near Los Alamos. It was called the Cerro Grande Fire and it was caused by a NPS " controlled " burn. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerro_Grande_Fire

jerryjeff 10-24-2017 01:29 PM

After some of our disastrous fires there has been discussion on preventative measures. Not as easy as it would seem. People like to build in the woods and they are loath to cut down any of the pretty trees. It take money to "landscape" an entire forest for safety. Builders want to build and folks like to buy and no one wants to have to pay for special building restrictions. There might not be more than ten trees in a neighborhood, but if you have houses 20' apart and fifty mile and hour winds like I've experienced in CA. then the whole neighborhood might go.

fred peterson 10-24-2017 06:13 PM

Silent Rock...Glad to hear your home was spared from the fire. Every day I learn that someone I know or worked with having lost their home and hear more first hand recounts of what it was like to be in the path of this firestorm. I certainly don't have any "insider" knowledge of how everything went down from 10PM Sunday night and 10AM Monday morning or what could have been done differently or better. But I can say with certainty that you can't directly fight a firestorm such as we experienced that night. No amount of of fire engines/personnel would have prevented this fire from spreading how far and fast as it did. After the winds died down that morning more resources could have probably reduced the number of structures destroyed, but there were TEN fires going in Napa/Sonoma/Mendocino counties at the same time, that have now burned over 300 square miles. In this Sundays local paper there was a poignant story about a few of the volunteer fire companies who took some of the brunt of the fire storm http:/www.pressdemocrat.com/news/7538948-181/sonoma-countys-volunteer-firefighters-raced?artslide=0


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