* No flaming or insulting of other members. You will get one warning via a private message. Repeat offenses will result in being banned. (We are quite serious about this folks).
* Vendor bashing will not be tolerated. You will get one warning via a private message. Repeat offenses will result in being banned.
* When posting, try to use descriptive titles for your threads to enhance the searchability of the site. Thread titles such as "Help Me" or "Dang this sucks" should NOT be used. Instead try titles like 'Need Help with Sights', 'How to Perform Stock Refinish', or 'Vibration in Handguard". This will help other people search the site with better accuracy and make it easier for people to help you out.
* Everyone has a personal opinion and they will often differ from others. If you get into an argument over something, debate the issue, not the member. If you feel the need to get into a heated discussion with someone, send them a private message. Personal debates on the forum will not be tolerated.
* Do NOT post copyrighted material on this Forum without consent of the author. This could be from another website, or a book that you personally own. The owner/Admins of this site will not be held liable for any copyright infringement of this type, and as such, will prevent (to the best of our ability) it's posting in public. This is for the protection of ALL members.
* Do NOT post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-orientated, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violate any laws. These types of messages will not be tolerated. You will get one warning via a private message. Serious offenses may result in immediate permanent suspension. Repeat offenses will result in being permanently suspended.
* Avoid thread hi-jacking. Moderators will be looking for this and will more than likely split the topic if it gets too drastic, as well as take appropriate action where deemed necessary, to include deleting posts and/or enforcement action.
Please do not post the same question or post across multiple forums, or in the same thread. The best way to get the answers you are searching for is to post a clear single question in the appropriate forum and be patient, Replies will come. If you are in a hurry for a particular answer try using the search button or reading through replies to similar questions. It may just contain the information that you need. No need to post the same information again and again as this just clogs up threads/sub-forums.
Do not bump non-Marketplace threads as that can clutter the front page of a discussion forum. Posts bumping discussion threads will be deleted.
* Any members advertising their wares on the site without expressed permission will get banned. Personal items for sale in the classifieds are ok as long as the meet the criteria laid out in the site rules.
* Do not post any info, posts or threads regarding the process of going to the estore and artificially placing a large number of items in your cart simply for the purpose of seeing what inventory remains of an item carried on the estore!
This activity slows down the estore and can cause problems with it crashing, errors with people's orders, and inventory errors, particularly during periods of high demand/traffic.
Anyone making such posts on the forum will be warned once, then have their forum privileges suspended at least temporarily for a second violation. Further violations can result in permanent suspension.
* There will be no posting of links to, or copying information from listings on outside auctions/commercial sites, i.e. -- Gunbroker, Ebay, Armslist, Craigslist, Reddit, gun trader sites, etc, that are still active/live. We will not provide a platform for members to promote said auctions as there is no viable way to determine whether they or someone they know has a stake in the auction. Posts with this information will be removed. Continual violations will result in suspension of forum privileges. You may link to closed/completed auctions in the sake of education and learning.
* Users who post fake information, i.e. - name, location, in their profile, or otherwise provide/post false information/data about themselves will be instantly banned. Users who register multiple usernames will also be removed.
* Your account may be revoked at any time for any reason.
Generally, the following enforcement policy will apply:
1st offense - warning
2nd offense - banned for one week to six month
3rd offense - banned for one year
4th offense - banned permanently
** Depending on the nature of the offense/rule violation, first offense can result in ANY of the above enforcement actions.
ADDITIONAL RULES, TO INCLUDE MARKETPLACE/CLASSIFIED AD RULES:
1. Profile Requirements
To start a sale, buy or trade thread anywhere in the Marketplace, your Profile must contain:
A. Your FIRST and LAST name as well as your STATE of residence. Your profile privacy settings must be set to at least allow registered users the ability to view your profile info, i.e. - Not set to "Friends only."
B. You must "enable receive email and PM’s" in your Control panel if you intend to buy or sell.
Additionally, you must have a valid email address listed in your registration profile (which can only be viewed by moderators/admin in the vBulletin master page).
Users with obvious fake names, or using false names in their profile will be permanently removed from the forum without warning. PLEASE NOTE: When a member has failed to put their full names and location in their profile, their ads will be deleted WITHOUT NOTICE. You are responsible enough to be involved in firearm activity, so you can be responsible enough to read and understand the forum rules. The posted rules ARE your notice as they are posted throughout the forum. Threads/ads will be restored once a member has updated their profile with first and last name, and state.
2. The Marketplace is intended SOLELY for the mutual benefit of forum members as a resource to support each other's collecting and/or shooting goals.
It is NOT intended for, and will NOT be used by members as a repeated, for-profit venture/operation. This includes:
A. Purchasing items from members on the forum, then posting them for sale at a markup/profit on other commercial sites, i.e. – eBay, Gunbroker, etc.
B. Reselling items at a considerable markup that were recently purchased from CMP.
Members found to have clearly abused this policy will lose the ability to post in and use the Marketplace, and potentially have their forum privileges suspended, temporarily or permanently.
3. You may only list personally owned items, and/or request/WTB items for yourself. “Selling (or buying) this for a friend/family member” ads, and 3rd-party sales/purchases are prohibited.
Additionally, NO posting or linking to listings on eBay, Craigslist, Gunbroker, Reddit, or other outside auction/commercial sites. We will not have the items placed here also. List your product here, try to sell it here, then take it to eBay, Craigslist, Gunbroker, auction-arms, etc.
4. There will be no “auction style” selling here…If you post an item for sale and it says anything like "I will take the highest offer" it will be removed.
We ask that you list your item on just one forum, so there is not confusion and/or issues with an item being sold on another forum when someone attempts to purchase it here. If you do list and sell on another forum, it is your responsibility to immediately update your ad on our forum…if you do not, your privilege to post in the Marketplace and even the forum itself may be suspended, at least temporarily.
NOTE REGARDING 1911 PISTOLS PURCHASED FROM CMP: If you are considering selling a 1911/1911A1 you acquired directly from CMP, you MUST obtain approval from CMP1911ADMIN before listing it on the forum as purchasers of these weapons are not allowed to resell them as a condition of the purchase. You may reach him via PM or email: [email protected]
5. Vendors (or people selling large quantities of the same item as part of a commercial venture) must first contact a moderator or admin.
6. Omission of information is also known as fraud. It is wholly the responsibility of the person listing an item to describe it ACCURATELY and TRUTHFULLY.
Example: If you are selling a rifle stock that has a 9 inch crack in it you need to disclose that information to the buyer. Do not describe the item or tell the buyer that the stock has "light scratches" only.
If we determine that you defraud a member by failing to disclose facts about your items, your access to this section will be restricted and you may be permanently banned from the forum.
7. CLASSIFIED AD REQUIREMENTS
A. Briefly describe your item in the title, along with WTS, WTT or WTB.
B. We do not have any rules regarding notification of a purchase or trade in an ad...it can be accomplished via a post on the thread, a PM, an email, a phone call, a pigeon carrier, etc. However, if you set the terms of your sale, you must follow them! We do not require or enforce any conditions of purchase; however, if a member violates their own terms then they are subject to at least suspension from the Marketplace section. For example: If you say, "First 'I'll take it' gets it," and sell to someone via PM or email without updating your ad and someone posts they'll take it, that's on you. We will not be party to a dispute, but you WILL lose your privilege to post in the Marketplace as a minimum since you failed to follow your own conditions.
C. You must list a price, and make it easily visible, not just lost in the description. Ads without a price will be deleted. It is ok to list a price and OBO (or best offer); however, no auction-style listings
D. As noted in item #4, provide ALL and ACCURATE details. i.e color, size, caliber, year, make, model, condition, defects, etc
E. Post pictures, or at least the links to them. If you are unable to post pics, then make them available via e-mail.
F. List shipping, pick-up or delivery options for the buyer, as well as cost.
G. Be sure to mark your ad as "SOLD" once the items are sold.
8. Do not bump ads older than 90 days without moderator approval. Ads older than 90 days will be locked if they get bumped.
9. Do not bump an ad more than once within a 24-hour period. Ads bumped multiple times within 24 hours will be locked or deleted. Members who continually do this will have their ads locked or deleted, and will lose your privilege to post in the Marketplace.
10. Remove previous bump posts so as to keep the size of the threads to a minimum. Nobody wants to have to search through 4+ pages of "Bump" or "ttt" posts simply to find information on the item listed.
If not removed, mods will remove them and/or delete the thread if it gets out of hand.
11. If you commit to buy or sell, please contact the seller or buyer within 24 hours with a PM or email to make arrangements.
12. If an item is sold, please mark the thread as such. This will help eliminate the old threads coming back up, as well as help those looking for specific items.
13. For WTB items anywhere in the Marketplace:
- Only respond to a WTB ad if you possess the requested item or have specific knowledge of that item’s availability. For example, do not post, “Check eBay” or “Check Gunbroker.”
- Once you have found/purchased the item(s) desired, delete the thread so as to not waste other members' time and allow for other threads to have visibility.
14. Keep the classified threads clean of extraneous/fluff comments and questions, regardless of how innocent or praiseworthy. This prevents derailing the thread and generating wasteful, opinionated discussions, as well as surreptitious bumping of threads.
If you have a technical or knowledge question relating to a listed item, start a new thread or search and add to an existing thread.
If you want to thank or praise a seller or item, DON'T do it in the sale thread as it unnecessarily bumps a stale thread, and said comments will be deleted. Instead, do the person the courtesy of posting in the Buyer/Seller Feedback section here: http://forums.thecmp.org/forumdisplay.php?f=81
Basically, if you don't have a question DIRECTLY related to a sale/trade/purchase of a specific thread, don't post! And this particularly applies to stomping a member’s ad concerning their asking price as there is a tendency to post negative replies when someone lists an item for sale that others consider overpriced.
We will not tolerate members stomping another member's ad concerning their asking price.
This also includes posting low-ball offers. If you want to make an offer lower than the asking price, even if it states OBO, do it via PM or email.
If an item is sold and the listing member deleted the price (which is their prerogative) and you want to know what the price was, do NOT post in the thread…send the member a PM.
Those who continually stomp or hijack other member's ads will face temporary, and even permanent suspension of their forum privileges.
15. No duplicate or multiple threads in different sections for the same item. Pick one section, the most applicable, and post there. Additional duplicate threads will be deleted.
16. You may not use the signature block function to solicit purchases, trades and/or sales. That is why we have the Marketplace...post a thread with your specific WTB, WTS, WTT ad.
You may have up to two lines stating you are looking or searching for a particular rifle/weapon and serial number.
As with individual posts, signature blocks/lines are subject to the same forum rules and will be handled accordingly if they violate any forum rules, policies/procedures or take up too much room of a post.
OTHER TIPS/GUIDELINES
- Buyers and Sellers should verify each other’s identity before sending money and/or products. If possible, get each other’s phone number and have a quick conversation to confirm the transaction details.
- As a suggestion: sellers should consider using delivery confirmation to avoid conflicts from buyers; saying they never received the products.
- Buyers, get to know the seller a little before you blindly send cash. If something does not seem right; it probably isn't. If something seems too good to be true; it probably is. Contact a moderator or report a thread/post that appears to be a scam.
- Respect fellow members. This section is a great place to support/help out fellow members and occasionally make new friends. Please be respectful to your fellow members. Maybe try selling here to a member instead of eBay, maybe save them a buck or two. If you have any questions, problems or concerns feel free to contact a moderator or admin.
- We do not require members to keep ads, or keep a listing price in the thread. It is your ad, so you are free to delete it at your discretion, as well as remove the asking price if you so desire. If someone is curious about the price for what an item sold, contact the seller via PM…do NOT post in thread.
- Lastly, don't forget the <b>Buyer/Seller Feedback section</b> http://forums.thecmp.org/forumdisplay.php?f=81
Be sure to express a good or bad experience with your buyer or seller, and let others know what to expect. Also be sure to check there for a member if you are concerned BEFORE you buy.
MODERATION RULES/ENFORCEMENT
1. All spammers get banned instantly and permanently.
2. Inappropriate or out of hand threads shall be closed with or without reason posted for the closure or deleted at the discretion of the Mods/Admins.
3. If you cannot follow the rules set forth, your posts may be deleted, removed, or edited by the Moderators.
4. If you repeatedly do not follow the rules set forth, you will be banned from this section or from the CMP Forum for any length of time from 2 days to permanently, at the discretion of the Moderators.
NOTE: These rules can change at any time. Administrators and Moderators have the right to make any decision that fits the website and its users.
DISCLAIMER
The CMP, any of its staff and forum administrators/moderators assume NO liability or responsibility for Marketplace transactions. Members will use at their own risk, and CMP will not be responsible for any disputes or claims between members involving a transaction.
The Civilian Marksmanship Program forum is intended primarily to be a technically-oriented website for professional, courteous, and intellectual discussion of CMP matches, activities, firearms and related events. We are an online community founded by enthusiasts, for enthusiasts, of all ages and walks of life. Remember that we have youth CMP participants who view this site. Please enjoy your stay and with your help, we can make the CMP Forums safe for all.
The opinions and posts on this site do not necessarily reflect those of The Civilian Marksmanship Program.
If you have any questions, please contact a Moderator
I bought my first M1, an SASG, two years ago from the CMP. Followed that up with an HRA SGS last year. I will turn 50 in October...and shot my first ever matches (three of them) with these rifles. I, too, wish I had discovered this earlier in life...
Older people, willing to pass on their passions to younger people, are what keep many endeavors alive. I have been both a beneficiary and a benefactor in this regard in other areas, and it's very rewarding.
I also, recently, started attempting to shoot competitively. For the first time in my life, I have a range where matches are held within reasonable driving distance so I can at least practice.
In 2011 (still not having somewhere to shoot matches) I started postal 4P smallbore shooting. Yes, it's an honor system but I started with an inexpensive Mossberg and now shoot a Winchester 52D (that I got from the CMP). In 2 years, I was able to improve enough to consistently shoot expert scores IAW NRA rules. After 30 years of shooting non-competitively, it was, and still is a humbling experience but a heck of a lot of fun.
Encouragement from guys like you makes a world of difference to guys like me. Thanks!
Just a little update on me, or what some may call gloating, or tooting my own horn. It is all of these, but most of all, I want to inspire you to do the same.
I completed my quest for the Distinguished Rifleman badge at Camp Perry this year as the highest scoring civilian in the Non-Distinguished ranking of nearly 700 people. It was the best full distance 500 agg in my life to this point, but not a single personal best in any stage. I didn't even clean any of the stages, but came away with a 483-12X. The score was good enough to place 7th in the Non-Distinguished, and 39th overall in the 2014 National Trophy Individual, the national leg match. Just making the cut in the NTI gets a civilian a 10 pt hard leg even if he only makes the cut for bronze, but I went out with an honest gold medal leg at Perry. I walked the stage to take badge #2198 amid the applause, and cheers of so many I have met along the way. It is a milestone in ones shooting career, but not the end of the road.
Distinguished Rifleman #2198
NRA HP XTC High Master (service rifle)
NRA Patron Life member
PCGC Junior Team coach
CMP GSM Master Inst.
The status of Distinguished Rifleman is something that most could achieve, but fewer than 1/1000 actually do as I have read somewhere.
It is the highest accomplishment in service rifle competition short of a national trophy. It recognizes Excellence In Competition, but mostly perseverance, and dedication to a reachable goal in ones shooting life. It cannot be achieved in a single match, but it can be accomplished in a single year. It took me six years from the time I got my first "leg" points. I barely made the cut for bronze in the Special Garand EIC at the Eastern Games the second of third time I shot that match, that only comes once a year. That's three years of getting close but no cigar. I've seen grown men weep in disappointment, when they fall just short of the cut for the top 10%.
But you keep at it. You pay your dues being "leg meat" for those that came to take what was theirs before they left home. I shot one EIC eight years in a row never making the cut, as the EIC was always the last match of a ten day shooting extravaganza of the Eastern Games/Creedmoor Cup. I came so close so many times. I went on traveling to our State EIC, and even more mid, and late season EIC's at Butner for five more years.
In 2011 I went to the Nationals for the second time and squeaked into the cut by the skin of my teeth. It felt good to make progress and leave Camp Perry with 14 points. I stayed at 14 points as an Expert, but when I got my Master card from the NRA, it fueled the desire and gave me hope that sooner or later I would make it. The Butner curse as I came to call it was still on me. I was shooting well, but there's something about a leg match that takes you down a notch or two.
It's called pressure. The pressure you put on yourself will kill your scores. I was still at 14 points at the start of the 2014 season, but after missing the cut again at Butner in the Creedmore EIC, I went back to Butner again in June and broke the curse with a 476-8X for another bronze and 6 pts. Now at 20 pts I make plans for Perry, and hope to go out by making the cut. On the day of the NTI the conditions were terrible. It was dark, and rainy with a 10mph wind coming from 10:30 to 11:30. I relied on my Walt Walter Navy Team data book because it's wind chart had never let me down. I told myself that this was just a club match, and to show off like I always do. I shoot a 93-0 on my feet, a 97-3X on my tail. It was like a ton of weight off my shoulders, but the 300 was next.
The 300 is a leg match killer. It has taken more good shooters out of the running than the standing slowfire, because the standing slowfire takes out the inexperienced competitor. It was the 300 that sunk me in the P-100 the day before. I made my wind call and pounded a 99-4X. Shot number 7 went out early, but my NPA saved me and it only leaked out for a 9. I went to the pits knowing that barring a catastophy I would be a Distinguished Rifleman that day. Words can't describe the joy of truly feeling like I was gonna make it. Because of the poor conditions, we speculate in the pits that the cut would certainly go below 470. I get to the 600, and I have to shoot first. I said "this is it, lets put this quest to bed" I pounded the first ten for a 95-2, and then the last ten for a 99-3X. I did it, a 483-12X good for a real gold leg finally, and at Perry too !
It is perseverance that pays off in the end. Stay with it, and strive for improvement, and shoot the leg matches especially if you don't think you are good enough. The experience of leg matches is invaluable. You just don't know match pressure if you don't chase the prize. The bitterness of failure makes you better, and all the sweeter when you get to the end.
Last edited by Big_Red; 07-31-2015, 11:54 PM.
Reason: Readability
Distinguished Rifleman #2198
NRA HP XTC High Master (service rifle)
NRA Patron Life member
PCGC Junior Team coach
CMP GSM Master Inst.
These are my EIC (leg) medals. They are arranged left to right chronologically. The medals on the bottom row are earned at the matches themselves by placing in the top 10% of non-distinguished shooters. The top row represent the 10 point milestones or legs. After the first ten are earned, you get a Bronze, a silver at 20, and the DR at 30 points. A shooter needs to have one "Hard leg" of a silver, or gold match medal to go out with 30. Since the 2011 Bronze was earned at Perry, it counts as a
hard leg. This is called an "easy hard leg" because even a bronze is worth ten points to a civilian at Perry in the NTI.
Last edited by Greg Ficklin; 10-04-2014, 08:03 PM.
Distinguished Rifleman #2198
NRA HP XTC High Master (service rifle)
NRA Patron Life member
PCGC Junior Team coach
CMP GSM Master Inst.
"The ultimate achievement for a service rifle or pistol shooter is to earn Distinguished designation. The Distinguished Rifleman, Distinguished Marksman, and Distinguished Pistol Shot Badges are awarded to members of the Armed Forces, or civilians, in recognition of “a preeminent degree of achievement in target practice with the service rifle or pistol.”" A Short History of the Distinguished Shooter Program, Hap Rocketto
I love seeing how people display their awards. http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=110530. EIC and DR awards are certainly worthy of display cases. I appreciate you sharing your path to glory. I wish others would do the same. I doubt there are many DR badges given to people winning their first 3 or 4 matches. It's the mix of good and bad that make the stories interesting.
What are the small pins in the case?
One correction for the sole purpose of preventing misinformation. " A shooter needs to have one "Hard leg" of a silver, or gold match medal to go out with 30" Not correct. Medals have no direct correlation to leg points. In a local EIC match there is a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place medal for the overall match. If a match had 50 points eligible shooters, but the first 3 places were DR's, there would be 1(10), 1(8), 3(6) point legs. Two people get their required hard leg but no medal.
Last edited by hi-revr; 10-02-2014, 09:14 PM.
Reason: hjjj
Distinguished Rifleman #2227
President's Hundred Gold Daniel Boone Medal
The small pins are from left to right A NRA life member pin, A Garand EIC pin, and the last is an NRA life endowment pin. The NRA pins don't really belong in the box, but as a separate story line in the journey, they are in there for now.
I know that DRs can still earn the medals for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place in EIC matches. But I think they are treated purely as place medals, and the leg medals still go to the ND list. It just doesn't seem right that a shooter could get a hard leg and no medal. I'll ask Shannon how that works.
Distinguished Rifleman #2198
NRA HP XTC High Master (service rifle)
NRA Patron Life member
PCGC Junior Team coach
CMP GSM Master Inst.
That's enough about me. I really wanted this thread to be about you, the readers that may want to succeed in CMP rifle competition. But now you know a little about the goals, and what it means to get the Distinguished Rifleman distinction. I hope everyone that reads this sets a goal to get there, because you can.
Now, what I want to talk about is how to get there. The DR badge isn't something someone can just stumble into. It has to be a long term goal. Like a long trip, it starts with the first step. For me it was going to a clinic after seeing a flyer for one held at a gun club I never heard of. Gun clubs are a lot like skunks. There are more of them than you think, and unless one gets in the news, or in the case of a skunk, gets hit on the highway, you may never know they are there. That's why the CMP has the club tracker on it's website. With it you can search for clubs, and CMP sanctioned clinics, and matches by state. I encourage you to use the club tracker to find a club near you. Now "near" is a relative term. What is near for me may not be near for you. For the sake of this discussion anything within a one hour drive is near. What you are looking for is a place that shoots matches regularly. If you are lucky enough to have more than one choice, choose the one that has the better range, more firing points, pulled targets vs walk and pace, a 200 yard line, instead of a closer 100 yard bench range. There's nothing wrong with a 100 yard range, but if driving another 45 minutes gets you a 200, and 300 yard club range that shoots NRA HP, then it is obviously better choice.
Some people are very lucky to live within an hour of a full distance 200, 300, and 600 yard ranges. These are called XTC for across the course, or full distance range. These are usually military bases that allow a single club use of the facility. Camp Butner is a good example of this. Their club is the North State Shooting Club. People living in the north central Alabama area will soon have a state of the art CMP shooting complex that will rival any in the world near Talladega in mid 2015. My point is you need a shooting home, and it needs to be a club that offers what you want to do. You need other people that do what you do, with the same goals, and passion for what you can achieve. Even if it takes two hours to get to, and you can only get there once a month, you need a club. You need the facility, but more than that you need the people like you that have had their eyes opened to the discipline and journey you have undertaken. The similarities of a church for spiritual growth and fellowship, and a gun club for the competitive shooter are too many to list. How many can you think of ?
First step...Join a club.
Distinguished Rifleman #2198
NRA HP XTC High Master (service rifle)
NRA Patron Life member
PCGC Junior Team coach
CMP GSM Master Inst.
Do not be intimidated because you think everybody will shoot better than you They will!! Get over it!! but just at first Think about it Where do you think you will learn more a full distance club full of NRA Highmasters and CMP Distinguished Riflemen or the local public range where the "25 yd. marksmen" hang out
Go there and say "I'm just starting out and I heard this is a good place to learn"99.9% of the people there will bend over backwards to help you
I had never met Greg but I read a post where he described in detail how to operate a vintage bolt rifle without taking it out of your shoulder so I tried it and actually got pretty good at it
A couple of years ago at the Eastern Games I walked up to him and said "Hey that works really good...Thank you" He smiled at me and said " You just made my day I posted that and hoped it would help somebody"
There are plenty of people out there waiting to help....all you have to do is show up and ask
Tweet
The Special Garand EIC was and adaptation of the SAFS offered to the Eastern and Western Games from 2007 to 2012. that awarded 4 intro points to the top 10% of competitors that had no EIC points. It has now been replaced by a traveling SAFS using issued RRA NM rifles, and ammo. DR's that have these intro points are an anomaly in the system, and occupy a unique place in the DR list.
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