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ADDITIONAL RULES, TO INCLUDE MARKETPLACE/CLASSIFIED AD RULES:
1. Profile Requirements
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B. You must "enable receive email and PM’s" in your Control panel if you intend to buy or sell.
Additionally, you must have a valid email address listed in your registration profile (which can only be viewed by moderators/admin in the vBulletin master page).
Users with obvious fake names, or using false names in their profile will be permanently removed from the forum without warning. PLEASE NOTE: When a member has failed to put their full names and location in their profile, their ads will be deleted WITHOUT NOTICE. You are responsible enough to be involved in firearm activity, so you can be responsible enough to read and understand the forum rules. The posted rules ARE your notice as they are posted throughout the forum. Threads/ads will be restored once a member has updated their profile with first and last name, and state.
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4. There will be no “auction style” selling here…If you post an item for sale and it says anything like "I will take the highest offer" it will be removed.
We ask that you list your item on just one forum, so there is not confusion and/or issues with an item being sold on another forum when someone attempts to purchase it here. If you do list and sell on another forum, it is your responsibility to immediately update your ad on our forum…if you do not, your privilege to post in the Marketplace and even the forum itself may be suspended, at least temporarily.
NOTE REGARDING 1911 PISTOLS PURCHASED FROM CMP: If you are considering selling a 1911/1911A1 you acquired directly from CMP, you MUST obtain approval from CMP1911ADMIN before listing it on the forum as purchasers of these weapons are not allowed to resell them as a condition of the purchase. You may reach him via PM or email: [email protected]
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6. Omission of information is also known as fraud. It is wholly the responsibility of the person listing an item to describe it ACCURATELY and TRUTHFULLY.
Example: If you are selling a rifle stock that has a 9 inch crack in it you need to disclose that information to the buyer. Do not describe the item or tell the buyer that the stock has "light scratches" only.
If we determine that you defraud a member by failing to disclose facts about your items, your access to this section will be restricted and you may be permanently banned from the forum.
7. CLASSIFIED AD REQUIREMENTS
A. Briefly describe your item in the title, along with WTS, WTT or WTB.
B. We do not have any rules regarding notification of a purchase or trade in an ad...it can be accomplished via a post on the thread, a PM, an email, a phone call, a pigeon carrier, etc. However, if you set the terms of your sale, you must follow them! We do not require or enforce any conditions of purchase; however, if a member violates their own terms then they are subject to at least suspension from the Marketplace section. For example: If you say, "First 'I'll take it' gets it," and sell to someone via PM or email without updating your ad and someone posts they'll take it, that's on you. We will not be party to a dispute, but you WILL lose your privilege to post in the Marketplace as a minimum since you failed to follow your own conditions.
C. You must list a price, and make it easily visible, not just lost in the description. Ads without a price will be deleted. It is ok to list a price and OBO (or best offer); however, no auction-style listings
D. As noted in item #4, provide ALL and ACCURATE details. i.e color, size, caliber, year, make, model, condition, defects, etc
E. Post pictures, or at least the links to them. If you are unable to post pics, then make them available via e-mail.
F. List shipping, pick-up or delivery options for the buyer, as well as cost.
G. Be sure to mark your ad as "SOLD" once the items are sold.
8. Do not bump ads older than 90 days without moderator approval. Ads older than 90 days will be locked if they get bumped.
9. Do not bump an ad more than once within a 24-hour period. Ads bumped multiple times within 24 hours will be locked or deleted. Members who continually do this will have their ads locked or deleted, and will lose your privilege to post in the Marketplace.
10. Remove previous bump posts so as to keep the size of the threads to a minimum. Nobody wants to have to search through 4+ pages of "Bump" or "ttt" posts simply to find information on the item listed.
If not removed, mods will remove them and/or delete the thread if it gets out of hand.
11. If you commit to buy or sell, please contact the seller or buyer within 24 hours with a PM or email to make arrangements.
12. If an item is sold, please mark the thread as such. This will help eliminate the old threads coming back up, as well as help those looking for specific items.
13. For WTB items anywhere in the Marketplace:
- Only respond to a WTB ad if you possess the requested item or have specific knowledge of that item’s availability. For example, do not post, “Check eBay” or “Check Gunbroker.”
- Once you have found/purchased the item(s) desired, delete the thread so as to not waste other members' time and allow for other threads to have visibility.
14. Keep the classified threads clean of extraneous/fluff comments and questions, regardless of how innocent or praiseworthy. This prevents derailing the thread and generating wasteful, opinionated discussions, as well as surreptitious bumping of threads.
If you have a technical or knowledge question relating to a listed item, start a new thread or search and add to an existing thread.
If you want to thank or praise a seller or item, DON'T do it in the sale thread as it unnecessarily bumps a stale thread, and said comments will be deleted. Instead, do the person the courtesy of posting in the Buyer/Seller Feedback section here: http://forums.thecmp.org/forumdisplay.php?f=81
Basically, if you don't have a question DIRECTLY related to a sale/trade/purchase of a specific thread, don't post! And this particularly applies to stomping a member’s ad concerning their asking price as there is a tendency to post negative replies when someone lists an item for sale that others consider overpriced.
We will not tolerate members stomping another member's ad concerning their asking price.
This also includes posting low-ball offers. If you want to make an offer lower than the asking price, even if it states OBO, do it via PM or email.
If an item is sold and the listing member deleted the price (which is their prerogative) and you want to know what the price was, do NOT post in the thread…send the member a PM.
Those who continually stomp or hijack other member's ads will face temporary, and even permanent suspension of their forum privileges.
15. No duplicate or multiple threads in different sections for the same item. Pick one section, the most applicable, and post there. Additional duplicate threads will be deleted.
16. You may not use the signature block function to solicit purchases, trades and/or sales. That is why we have the Marketplace...post a thread with your specific WTB, WTS, WTT ad.
You may have up to two lines stating you are looking or searching for a particular rifle/weapon and serial number.
As with individual posts, signature blocks/lines are subject to the same forum rules and will be handled accordingly if they violate any forum rules, policies/procedures or take up too much room of a post.
OTHER TIPS/GUIDELINES
- Buyers and Sellers should verify each other’s identity before sending money and/or products. If possible, get each other’s phone number and have a quick conversation to confirm the transaction details.
- As a suggestion: sellers should consider using delivery confirmation to avoid conflicts from buyers; saying they never received the products.
- Buyers, get to know the seller a little before you blindly send cash. If something does not seem right; it probably isn't. If something seems too good to be true; it probably is. Contact a moderator or report a thread/post that appears to be a scam.
- Respect fellow members. This section is a great place to support/help out fellow members and occasionally make new friends. Please be respectful to your fellow members. Maybe try selling here to a member instead of eBay, maybe save them a buck or two. If you have any questions, problems or concerns feel free to contact a moderator or admin.
- We do not require members to keep ads, or keep a listing price in the thread. It is your ad, so you are free to delete it at your discretion, as well as remove the asking price if you so desire. If someone is curious about the price for what an item sold, contact the seller via PM…do NOT post in thread.
- Lastly, don't forget the <b>Buyer/Seller Feedback section</b> http://forums.thecmp.org/forumdisplay.php?f=81
Be sure to express a good or bad experience with your buyer or seller, and let others know what to expect. Also be sure to check there for a member if you are concerned BEFORE you buy.
MODERATION RULES/ENFORCEMENT
1. All spammers get banned instantly and permanently.
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4. If you repeatedly do not follow the rules set forth, you will be banned from this section or from the CMP Forum for any length of time from 2 days to permanently, at the discretion of the Moderators.
NOTE: These rules can change at any time. Administrators and Moderators have the right to make any decision that fits the website and its users.
DISCLAIMER
The CMP, any of its staff and forum administrators/moderators assume NO liability or responsibility for Marketplace transactions. Members will use at their own risk, and CMP will not be responsible for any disputes or claims between members involving a transaction.
The Civilian Marksmanship Program forum is intended primarily to be a technically-oriented website for professional, courteous, and intellectual discussion of CMP matches, activities, firearms and related events. We are an online community founded by enthusiasts, for enthusiasts, of all ages and walks of life. Remember that we have youth CMP participants who view this site. Please enjoy your stay and with your help, we can make the CMP Forums safe for all.
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Oh, sure. Zediker might be wrong (he's right about a lot of stuff, though) and as I said I might be imagining it. I guess the best thing to do is to consult EricC about this question, and see if he has any empirical evidence one way or the other.
Zediker says not to use Varget in his book on the M-14, and he gives the same reloading advice for the M-1. Zediker says Varget's too harsh on the rifle. I've burned a couple of 8# jugs of it in my M-1, and maybe I'm just imagining it but I thought the hump on the op-rod showed a bit too much wear and switched to 4064.
If you want to get picky about powders, 4895 is probably it for a 150 and even a 168 grain projectile, but 4064 is just killer with the 175.
Lately I've been using 46.0 of 4064 for all my 150, 168, and 175 loads.
No Varget? That's ridiculous rubbish. You should seek better advice and read better books. What is wear on the "hump of the op rod"? I'm not sure I know what the hump on the op rod is If you mean brass marks on the "hump??", those are normal and a part of the ejection cycle. If your talking about what I think you are when you say the hump, it normally hits the brass as it's ejected thus throwing most of the brass except the last round and those single loaded to 1 o'clock. Last rounds and single loaded go to close to 3 because the op rod/bolt locks back.
I will admit my best loads are with IMR 4064 and with your data (46-48gr). But, my long range loads are best with Varget.
For the OP, I have never been able to get IMR 4895 to shoot as accurate in any loading as I have IMR 4064 and the too harsh Varget Also IMR 4895 is one of the worse metering powders I've ever loaded besides IMR 4350 (for my commercial rifles). Varget and IMR 4064 beat 4895 hands down in the ease of accurate powder measurement.
Of course, he has empirical evidence that Varget is too harsh, right? My M1 was flinging brass all over the place with 4895. First out in front of the bench, then way off to the right at 3 o'clock, then in my face, and so on. As soon as I switched to Varget, they all started landing in a nice neat pile at 4 o'clock about 4 feet away. Accuracy was tighter by half, and I wasn't getting any fliers that I didn't call myself. Superb stuff.
4 o'clock is actually an odd place for a Garand to eject brass. Definately out of the ordinary. 90% eject brass at 1 o'clock and at 3 o'clock for the last round and single loaded rounds. I've never had or seen a Garand eject at 4 o'clock in a consistant manner and only a few on those last rounds and single loaded ones. Shooters next to you must hate you big time.
Please let me know how you got your rifle to do that. Throwing brass at the shooter next door can sometimes distract the other shooter and every point lost by him is a point gained by me. I need all the help I can get.
I believe that IMR 4064 is better than IMR 4895, and this is why:
A 1.75-inch group using IMR 4064 in my Springfield service grade Garand
Hand load used for this target:
HXP 70 & HXP 71 brass (once-fired)
CCI #34 primer
Nosler Custom Competition 155 grain bullet
47.5 grains of IMR 4064
COAL = 3.312"
Chronograph Data:
Avg = 2,623
Low = 2,553
High = 2,700
ES = 147.5
SD = 41.42
That ES is a bit disturbing. I used 45.9grs of 4064 with the Nosler 155gr for the 3-600 CMP sniper match. Results were good but I'm wondering if the 600 suffered from velocity variation now. May have to dust off the chronograph. There's always next year. Good Shooting.....
I've tried 4064, 4895, R-15 and Varget. I still have not settled on one. For me, I've found that 4064 give the best performace but since it's shaped like Lincoln Logs (and nearly as big) it won't meter well thru my Dillon very well. Varget and R-15 just didn't get it for me. So now I'm returning to experimenting with 4895.
I was told early on in my short reloading career that for heavier bullets use 4064, for lighter bullets use 4895.
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Dan W.
CMP GSM Master Instructor
CMP HP Master
DR#2474 (2019) 1/2 with irons, 1/2 with optics
I won't offer any advice on which powder, but I would offer that you should try all of the 'Big Three' 4895, 4064, and Varget. See which one works the best for YOU and your gun. I've been loading for twenty plus years, and it took me five to ten of that to to learn not just load what I wanted and then act surprised that it didn't do what I wanted, but to actually take the time to work up several loads and let the evidence tell me what really works the best. The reloading should be as much fun as the shooting, otherwise you will look at it as a chore. The thrill is in the hunt, be it game, or that perfect load. Just my thoughts...
I haven't had much luck with IMR 4064. Loads developed in the summer with IMR 4895 don't work well in winter, and visa versa. I've found H 4895 to be better year around and season to season. My best loads have been with VV N-150. Now I think I'll grab some Varget and give that a try.
I was also concerned about the large ES... until I took a close look at the group on my target. That load has continued to be very accurate for me on more than one occasion. It's performance that counts, right?
Right, but I am concerned mainly about the 600yd performance--where velocity variations do show up in vertical dispersion. Testing at 600yds, while not unavailable, is logistically difficult. Good Shooting.......
Right, but I am concerned mainly about the 600yd performance--where velocity variations do show up in vertical dispersion. Testing at 600yds, while not unavailable, is logistically difficult. Good Shooting.......
What steps could I take to tweek my load further to reduce extreme spread?
Extreme spread is a consequnce of a large case with not much powder in it. Either shoot a bulky slow burning powder like 4350 or tilt the rifle up on every shot to settle the powder on the primer end of the case. Note: IMR4350 is considered to be too slow for the M1 and could damage an op-rod if an adjustable gas plug is not used.
4 o'clock is actually an odd place for a Garand to eject brass. Definately out of the ordinary. 90% eject brass at 1 o'clock and at 3 o'clock for the last round and single loaded rounds. I've never had or seen a Garand eject at 4 o'clock in a consistant manner and only a few on those last rounds and single loaded ones. Shooters next to you must hate you big time.
Please let me know how you got your rifle to do that. Throwing brass at the shooter next door can sometimes distract the other shooter and every point lost by him is a point gained by me. I need all the help I can get.
Larry
Honestly, I can't tell you why. All I ever did to the rifle was clean the stock in the dishwasher when I first got it, and replace all the springs with an Orion kit.
The only load I shoot in it now is 46 Varget, CCI-34, and 168 Hornady BTHP. I didn't notice the ejection pattern at first, though. The 100 yd. line at my range has a poured concrete floor where the benches sit, so empties bounce all over the place. The 200 yd line, however, has a pea gravel base, so the empties hit and stop dead in their tracks. I was surprised and pleased that they made a nice pile. They don't bother the other shooters as they're behind and to my right enough that they're out of everybody's way.
I've read that ejection can be anywhere from 1 to 5 and that's normal. I'm sure it has something to do with op rod velocity and the gas pressure curve, but I don't pretend to be able to explain it beyond that.
What steps could I take to tweek my load further to reduce extreme spread?
High ES can be attributed to a number of reasons, mainly inconsistant ignition, from my experience. You're using a hot primer, CCI 34s, so I'd make sure primer pockets are a uniform depth and primers are fully seated. Make sure the firing pin is in good shape and not over-oiled or clogged with gunk. Good hammer spring (a new Orion spring is cheap insurance). Minimum case resizing so you're not setting the shoulder back too much (lost firing pin energy driving the case forward).
I don't believe powder position will have any consequences here. Even with 4350, you should be getting 90% case fill, and you're using 4064 so you should be fine.
Low ES is desireable, the lower the better but results on target are what counts. The two out-of-group shots on your target could just as well be sighting errors or a wind switch. As ceresco points out, it's longer ranges that will show if it's truly a problem.
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. You should seek better advice and read better books. What is wear on the "hump of the op rod"? I'm not sure I know what the hump on the op rod is
If you mean brass marks on the "hump??", those are normal and a part of the ejection cycle. If your talking about what I think you are when you say the hump, it normally hits the brass as it's ejected thus throwing most of the brass except the last round and those single loaded to 1 o'clock. Last rounds and single loaded go to close to 3 because the op rod/bolt locks back.
Also IMR 4895 is one of the worse metering powders I've ever loaded besides IMR 4350 (for my commercial rifles). Varget and IMR 4064 beat 4895 hands down in the ease of accurate powder measurement.
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