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OK, I bought this scope when drmsparks was going to send me his to do an evaluation, so I figured, what the hell, I had a 20% discount coupon, I'll pick one up for $250 bucks.
The Good
This scope is 100% serviceable, unlike the other glued together Chinese repros I've encountered. I had it apart in 10 minutes, and thank god they decided not to repro the horrible sealant that clogs them up.
All the internal metal parts seem to be in spec with the original blueprints, are blued, and there is even one slight improvement: the use of a washer on the bottom of the turret springs, instead of the spring itself making contact with the reticle assembly.
Reticle assembly looks good, but the outer lock ring needs to be "spot" Loctited. It was loose, upon inspection, and will shoot completely loose and end up in the scope. Parts look good and like the originals, and definitely good for use as replacement parts.
The eye shade is nice, heavy rubber. The outer scope protective windows look coated, and are the thick glass flats they should be, not cheap, thin replacements.
ID Plate is closest I've seen to the originals. Letter fill is too white.
The Not So Good
The objective assembly lens lock ring was also loose, and the lens was flopping around. Explains why I immediately saw parallex and halo-ing when I first looked through it. I am assuming this is just an issue with my particular scope, not a general assembly issue.
The sunshade is not as long as the original, and has a very cheap retainer as compared to the original. Eta: the sunshade is the correct size
Not a big deal
As expected, the turret covers are not as good and not the same shape as the originals, but I haven't seen a repro yet with covers that are as good as the original.
The finish on the turret base of the scope tube is a bit rough.
Turret knobs are a bit cheap. Plastic vs. Bakelite on the the originals.
The Ugly
The external scope finish is PAINTED black and scratches off with your fingernail. I don't really understand this as the internal parts are BLUED!!
Huh? OK.
My scopes objective lens already shows signs of delamination out of the box! Now, for me, this is minor issue as I have glass and it's a quick swap for me. But for you? It may mean sending the scope back for replacement.
See it in the upper right corner of this blurry picture:
I haven't finished yet, but my list of items to address will be:
1. Change the objective lens, and erector glass with higher quality glass I have.
2. Strip the tube, sunshade, and turret covers and black oxide them.
3. The scope does need some type of internal sealant, or vacuum grease. There is nothing to seal it, outside of some small spots of black silicone to hold things in place.
3. Letter fill the ID plate with the yellow/off white paint I have.
Recommendation: Definitely a GREAT buy at $250, and even better if you have a beat up old vintage M84 that needs internal parts. HERE THEY ARE.
SARCO is out of most parts, so this is an excellent alternative.
If you purchase the scope to use, it *may* need some work, especially if you encountered what I have (lens delamination). The glass is cheap, but not any worse than the originals. There is good sources of glass out there.
The paint is purely a cosmetic issue, but it will eventually scratch off. I'm going to strip mine, prep the surface, and send it to my bluing guy. He will make it look like a million bucks.
Stay tuned.....
Last edited by TokiWartooth; 01-02-2015, 07:49 AM.
OK, couple of more things....
The reticle holder was in backwards...
There is something weird going on with the erector. I think the focal length on the erector glass may be incorrect. I have to check it with an original erector. There is parallax with the OD of one of the lenses, but not the reticle. What I mean by that is if I'm looking through the scope and move my head in circles, I see movement with a lens inside the scope, but not the reticle itself, which leads me to believe it's the erector (as I still have the objective out). Will research further..
Toki, would powder coating the outside of the scope be an alternative?
Close by my warehouse is a powder coating operation that is well respected. I know absolutely nothing about the qualities of powder coating so I thougt I would ask before looking like an idiot in front of them. Funny, I don't have that problem here!
Thanks for any feedback.
Toki, would powder coating the outside of the scope be an alternative?
Close by my warehouse is a powder coating operation that is well respected. I know absolutely nothing about the qualities of powder coating so I thougt I would ask before looking like an idiot in front of them. Funny, I don't have that problem here!
Thanks for any feedback.
SMAWman
There is no need to.. I started taking off the paint (and once again, used GEL BASED EPOXY REMOVER so that it doesn't wick into the scope) and guess what I found?
Well, a BEAUTIFUL Black Oxide finish!!! What the hell?? I can only assume they painted them because the ocular bell didn't really come out the same color as the tube (it's probably a different alloy) but it's not bad at all.
FYI, the turret caps are not painted, they are the originally bluing, so don't try and remove the finish on them.
THIS is what is under the paint. I removed the paint from this portion of the tube.
OK, finished stripping.
The black oxide finish under the paint is beautiful. I have no idea why they painted over it. I touched up the ocular and objective bells with cold blue paste, heat and steel wool.
If I had original turret knobs, caps and an ID plate, I could pass this off as an original M84 to 95% of you. Be careful if you are buying new looking M84s. You can tell by the turret base on the tube, it's got a rough, stippled finish. The internal parts are a bit lighter in weight, so the scope is lighter than an original, which is a bit of a give a way, but once again, 1st time buyers won't know this.
I'm going to swap out the erector glass with glass I have to see if it fixes the weird parallax problem I see (which doesn't affect sight picture, BTW).
OK, I have 2 M84 jobs I have to finish up this weekend, so I will finish this review/upgrade later.
Last edited by TokiWartooth; 01-01-2015, 01:32 PM.
Awesome review. I'm glad it turned out to be useful.
Are you going to be offering an upgrade service to these? Mine has the halo effect you were talking about so that's probably a factory issue. I would not mind upgraded glass and sealing.
I definitely plan on using mine and ordered a second.
Awesome review. I'm glad it turned out to be useful.
Are you going to be offering an upgrade service to these? Mine has the halo effect you were talking about so that's probably a factory issue. I would not mind upgraded glass and sealing.
I definitely plan on using mine and ordered a second.
What brand stripper did you use?
The haloing is because the reticle holder in the reticle assembly is installed backwards, with the retaining screw side facing the ocular end. It should be the other way. I flipped mine, much better. The glass is ok. I just ended up changing the objective glass because mine was delaminating.
The one thing I didn't check was the spacer in-between the erector lenses. It may not be blued, but in the white, and causing a bit of that bright ring you see around the reticle.
Last edited by TokiWartooth; 01-03-2015, 08:39 AM.
Good detailed report. I also purchased one of the scopes that came in a plain white box marked "Made In Taiwan". I just now looked up close with the finish and tried to remove any and it seems uniform and hard. The scope was marked W0408.
I also some years ago purchased one of the scopes made in China and it was a piece of junk.
The optics on my scope appear to be bright and clear.
Good detailed report. I also purchased one of the scopes that came in a plain white box marked "Made In Taiwan". I just now looked up close with the finish and tried to remove any and it seems uniform and hard. The scope was marked W0408.
I also some years ago purchased one of the scopes made in China and it was a piece of junk.
The optics on my scope appear to be bright and clear.
It's paint. Epoxy remover will take it right off, but start with the sunshade just to be sure. Never use mineral spirits or acetone, it wicks into the scope, and it's also messy as hell. The epoxy remover bubbles up the paint while having zero effect on the bluing , and you dry wipe it right off with paper towels. Nothing drips, nothing runs off or into the scope... no muss, no fuss. There is authentic looking black oxide under the paint.
Last edited by TokiWartooth; 01-04-2015, 09:56 PM.
Sounds like someone needs to offer a repro M84 upgrade service. Thanks for the info.
Coming soon....
Make no mistake, the parts in this scope are very good. I'm surprised at how well they duplicated everything and didn't leave things out. All the internal assemblies are just as good as the originals.
Last edited by TokiWartooth; 01-05-2015, 06:22 AM.
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Thanks for the info.
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