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Old 07-18-2012, 10:29 AM
imr4895 imr4895 is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 547
Default Gun purchase records

While at a local gun shop we got on the subject of record keeping on the sale of firearms and what the legal requirements were as to the length of time required to keep records. He said they have an annual ritual at which they dispose of all sale records over 10 years old.

He said that is the length of time they are required to save the records. Now when the store calls in for approval of the sale they simply state: rifle, pistol, or handgun to the approval authority. Serial numbers, mfr, etc. is not given.

Does that mean a firearms' travels from manufacturer to store, to customer, to another customer, etc. ends ten years from the last transaction?

Find that hard to believe.

What say you?
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  #2  
Old 07-18-2012, 10:40 AM
TexRdnec TexRdnec is offline
 
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Location: sinton, TX
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20yrs
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  #3  
Old 07-18-2012, 03:04 PM
Shrevy Shrevy is offline
 
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If I recall correctly, forever. The Form 4473 can be destroyed after 20 years. The FFL's bound book can never be destroyed. If an FFL goes out of business, the bound book is sent to the ATF. The bound book contains the same info as a form 4473.
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  #4  
Old 07-18-2012, 03:45 PM
Hilldweller Hilldweller is offline
 
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Location: Los Angeles
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As for unlicensed sales between individuals, the ATF sites states:
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and 922(b)(3)]

What record-keeping procedures should be followed when two private individuals want to
engage in a firearms transaction?

When a transaction takes place between private (unlicensed) persons who reside in the same
State, the Gun Control Act (GCA) does not require any record keeping. A private person may
sell a firearm to another private individual in his or her State of residence and, similarly, a
private individual may buy a firearm from another private person who resides in the same State.
It is not necessary under Federal law for a Federal firearms licensee (FFL) to assist in the sale or
transfer when the buyer and seller are "same-State" residents. Of course, the transferor/seller may
not knowingly transfer a firearm to someone who falls within any of the categories of prohibited
persons contained in the GCA. See 18 U.S. C. 922(g) and (n). However, as stated above, there
are no GCA-required records to be completed by either party to the transfer.

There may be State or local laws or regulations that govern this type of transaction. Contact State
Police units or the office of your State Attorney General for information on any such
requirements.

Please note that if a private person wants to obtain a firearm from a private person who resides in
another State, the firearm will have to be shipped to an FFL in the buyer's State. The FFL will be
responsible for record keeping.
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  #5  
Old 07-18-2012, 07:21 PM
armyinfantry11b armyinfantry11b is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 135
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I am the firearms manager at a local big box sporting goods store in the DFW area. We are required by the ATF to store all 4473's and supporting documentation in a locked file cabinet for a period not exceed 20 years. The information is available only to law enforcement, Internal auditors and government agents for the purpose of audit. Traditional we are audited twice yearly. When the back ground check is run, e it online or over the phone, we will tell hte examiner what the type of firearm is, but at no point do we give serial numbers, or other identifying information on the firearm.
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  #6  
Old 07-18-2012, 07:30 PM
MTC29 MTC29 is offline
 
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If your dealer is destroying his 4473s after just 10 years he is looking for big trouble from the BATF. 20 years is the magic number.
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Old 07-18-2012, 09:24 PM
horticattleman horticattleman is offline
 
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Location: Cajun Country
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20, 20 , I say 20. My local IOI says the rule is 20 years, but advisable to keep longer. The bound books and records are not to be destroyed.....ever. If you quit, you turn them in. Actually you call the IOI and he/she comes by and boxes them up and takes care of storing them. 5 years for denials.

You are required to keep them 20 years from the date of the form 4473. The record is "the dealer" to the "buyer." Private sales after that are the responsibility of the seller.
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Old 07-19-2012, 09:40 AM
imr4895 imr4895 is offline
 
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This is good information. Thanks. In a nut shell: 20 year retention, no paper work for individual to individual same state transactions ( I would still keep a detailed record ), FFL guys who quit send in their log books to ATF, serial numbers and manufacturers appear to be recorded only by the manufacturer when he sells the firearm to a FFL guy or distributor who also records the numbers in their log books. And so it goes.

My local gunshop needs a refresher course on the rules or he just confused the years 10-20. I'll let him know.
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  #9  
Old 07-19-2012, 09:50 AM
CharlieEcho CharlieEcho is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Central Ill-annoy
Posts: 991
Default States vary;

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8id1bde View Post
This is good information. Thanks. In a nut shell: 20 year retention, no paper work for individual to individual same state transactions ( I would still keep a detailed record ), FFL guys who quit send in their log books to ATF, serial numbers and manufacturers appear to be recorded only by the manufacturer when he sells the firearm to a FFL guy or distributor who also records the numbers in their log books. And so it goes.

My local gunshop needs a refresher course on the rules or he just confused the years 10-20. I'll let him know.
Your state laws may vary. Illannoy requires you to keep a record of the sale and to whom, for a period of ten years for private sale. The receiver must be legally permitted to own the firearm.
You can search your state laws via NRA-ILA web page.
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