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  #11  
Old 01-26-2013, 08:52 PM
jpickar jpickar is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weimar_police View Post
We used to say in the army that more guns are worn in the rifling by cleaning than shooting...
And that is where throat erosion comes from!

Steel bullets do wear rifling. It has been studied and documented.

John
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  #12  
Old 01-26-2013, 09:51 PM
ceresco ceresco is offline
 
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Cite the documentation. Good Shooting....
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  #13  
Old 01-26-2013, 10:04 PM
Polaris Polaris is offline
 
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I've fired thousands of rounds of every flavor of milsurp including Norinco in a Rem 788 .308 win. I wore out 2 bolt stops, one sear and one safety, but never degraded the accuracy or the rifling.

I also have a Mosin Nagant M44 that's probably seen 3000 rounds of nothing but commie milsurp and rifling is still perfect. Throat erosion is caused mostly by powder burning. "overbore" calibers like .25-06, 6.5mm and 7mm magnums and the hotter varmint .224s will wear a bore amazingly fast with a straight diet of thin gilding metal jacketed bullets.

Shoot HXP in your '06 by all means.
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  #14  
Old 01-26-2013, 10:07 PM
jpickar jpickar is offline
 
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If you haven't seen it, you have over looked it. Let's look at it from the reverse side.

Which is more durable? Steel or copper?


John
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  #15  
Old 01-27-2013, 12:16 AM
dcat dcat is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpickar View Post
And that is where throat erosion comes from!

Steel bullets do wear rifling. It has been studied and documented.

John
1. Throat erosion mainly comes from the hot powder gasses causing nitridation of the barrel steel.

2. As I have said previously in this post, the bullets in question are gilding metal clad mild steel (GMCS) jacketed. The cladding is thick enough the steel jacket never rubs against the barrel steel.

3. The US government has used billions of rounds of GMCS bullets. They do not cause excessive bore wear.

4. Hatcher has an extensive discussion of experiments Army Ordnance did comparing barrel life and useful accuracy using standard ball ammo and armor piercing ammo. Barrel life with the armor piercing ammo was longer.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/710...julian-hatcher

Regards,
dcat
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  #16  
Old 01-27-2013, 05:53 AM
oldNJshooter oldNJshooter is offline
 
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Location: Central FL
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Back in the late 60's, I worked at a LGS. Many guys would buy new hunting rifles in '06 or .308 and use "surplus" ball ammo, all US at the time, to sight in initially and then fine tune with factory fresh hunting ammo. It was a cost savings move for many at the time.
I have done so myself on a limited basis.
I've seen many Rem. 700's in .223 sighted in with M193 ball ammo.
Honestly, I can not see myself putting any HXP ball thru my 52 year old Pre '64 Winchester M70 '06.
I've owned it for 43 years and have only used factory ammo or my reloads in it.
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  #17  
Old 01-27-2013, 11:13 AM
ceresco ceresco is offline
 
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While I prefer copper jackets and will always be sceptical regarding mild steel; the overwhelming evidence is as presented above--the heat and erosive effects of the power charge are the big issue. You might better opt for a reduced load wth a "low flame temperature" powder if preserving a bore is your main goal. I saw the boroscope pics of my shot out 223; there were pieces of rectangular metal curling up like mud in a dry lake bed in the first third of the bore. The damage was from heat--fire cracking; not the passage of bullets over the lands. AP is another matter regarding barrel wear. Keep in mind that "AP" is not one item........and neither are barrels one flavor. Good Shooting......
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  #18  
Old 01-27-2013, 04:00 PM
HughUno HughUno is offline
 
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Location: Northern VA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpickar View Post
And that is where throat erosion comes from!

Steel bullets do wear rifling. It has been studied and documented.

John
actually, the exact opposite of this assertion is true.

LC did testing right after WW2 and they determined that steel-core (AP) ammo wore rifling at about HALF the rate as M2 ball.

It was written up in the 60's in American Rifleman (don't remember the issue, but have it saved somewhere) and Dick Culver wrote this up also on the old Jouster forum. You can probably find the piece via a google search under:

COPPER JACKETS, STEEL JACKETS, ARMOR PIERCING & BOAT-TAILED BULLETS! Posted By: Dick Culver
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  #19  
Old 01-27-2013, 07:29 PM
TuscoTodd TuscoTodd is offline
 
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Location: Rural Ohio
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I have a Marlin XL7 Laminate that has been fed nothing but surplus ball (HXP, FN, LC) and FN tracer rounds since new. And I have to say, that after 1000+ rounds, I can see no notable wear and it will still put 4 rounds into a nice little 1" pattern at 110 yards the same as it did the first time I took it to the range. (so long as I do my part)
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  #20  
Old 01-27-2013, 08:09 PM
.30 Carbine .30 Carbine is offline
 
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I don't see why people should be concerned about HXP causing wear on their .30-06 hunting rifle since HXP is shot with M1's all the time and you don't hear about people having like concerns with their Garand.
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