CMP Help: Stock Cleaning, Ammo, Mag ID & Accuracy

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  • .Steve.
    • Oct 2009
    • 958

    #16
    14.5 to 15.0 a Good Range

    Hi Guys,

    Been a while. Dialup with an ancient computer.

    I am happy sticking to WW296 loads in the 14.5 grains minimum to 15.0 grains maximum loadings with 110 FMJ RN. I think that range stays within the safest recommendations.

    I note that your 14.5 grains loading picks up 42fps over the 14.0 grains loading. The 14.5 grains loading is closer to the USGI velocity. I would stick with the 14.5 grains.

    As to primers, standard small rifle versus magnum small rifle, Speer does in fact still recommend magnum in their loading data with WW296/H110. The other manual publishers are happy with standard small rifle primers. Between the two, using WW296/H110, it probably makes minimal difference until you are out in the very cold of winter. With a full charge of WW296, I have never had ignition problems with standard small rifle primers.

    The thing to avoid is substituting small PISTOL primers just because you have them in stock. A better reloading practice is to stick to small rifle primers in a small rifle cartridge. It may seem obvious, but it comes up sometimes. The main differences are that the small rifle primer has a hotter flame and a stronger primer cup material, both of which you want for .30 Carbine reloads.

    .Steve.

    Comment

    • .Steve.
      • Oct 2009
      • 958

      #17
      The "Carbine Shooting With Accuracy" page has been properly identified by URL in the beginning of the sticky.

      Comment

      • .Steve.
        • Oct 2009
        • 958

        #18
        Accuracy article being moved to its own sticky. 3-10-16.

        Note the new Aguila data in the main post. 1994 Avg. Looks like they speeded it up to USGI spec finally.
        Last edited by .Steve.; 03-10-2016, 03:09 PM.

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        • .Steve.
          • Oct 2009
          • 958

          #19
          There is some Chinese CORROSIVE primed Carbine LC52 marked ammo sometimes seen. The below bolded text is borrowed from Sunray in the ammo forum.

          The Chinese faked the LC52 head stamp but used a different thinner font, clear instead of red primer sealer, and the extraction groove looks different. LC has red sealer and thicker letters. Mainly Chinese LC52 is easy to tell by its Berdan primer which has two flash holes off center if you pull a bullet.

          There are big, clear, pictures of the Chinese(Berdan primed) and U.S. ammo here. Bit more than half way down. The Chinese bullet isn't shaped the same and they used a clear primer sealant vs red. Slightly different head stamp font too.

          http://iaaforum.org/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6994

          Comment

          • K31Schmidt
            • Mar 2013
            • 766

            #20
            Oh yes, and don't pick that crap up on the firing line. Buddy of mine had the 52 LC and some one next to us had the Chinese 52. It got mixed in and I punched a hole in one decapping it. They look the same when sorting through brass.

            Comment

            • 35 Whelen
              • Dec 2011
              • 331

              #21
              From another thread-

              Originally posted by .Steve. View Post
              Dear 35 Whelan,

              Would you be so kind as to add your info, experience, and data to the sticky up higher called “CMP Help......” I see the results with 15.0 grains WW296 and different bullets. It would be nice to keep those data points rather than just have it marching down and being lost.

              .Steve.
              [/url][/B]
              So it's been about 3 months since I told @.Steve. I'd post load info/data "in a few days". But here goes...

              I keep fairly detailed records of my load data in a load log, including chronograph data; velocities and extreme spreads. I also note group sizes and the range at which they are fired, POI's at different sight settings, etc. But once I log a particular load a couple of times, that's it. The numbers aren't going to change as long as the components don't change and if it's an accurate load, it's an accurate load.

              I do however snap photos of most all of my groups. All of my firearms have their own folders on a hard drive on my computer. In the folder I keep photos of the groups and label the photos with the load information. I find it more enjoyable to review loads and groups in photo form than poring over numbers in a load log.

              So, I'm going to post photos here of groups in hopes that they might help someone. First a few points-

              Obviously, this data works in my rifles, but work up to the loads, and use them at your own risk.

              My shooting range is at my house and I stopped shooting paper targets some time ago because of the expense, keeping pasters, keeping staples in the staple gun and the mess of targets blowing all over the pasture and wooden target boards splintered to smithereens. I now shoot steel about 99% of the time. To that end, some of the 100 yd. groups are a little difficult to decipher as the cold-rolled steel target is pock-marked from being shot with those nasty jacketed bullets and the same with my old 200 yd. gong. I just recently built a stand for a 12" AR500 gong to use at 100 yds. and replaced the cold rolled steel 200 yd. gong with a piece of AR500. Much better.

              You'll see a lot of photos of loads fired from an Iver Johnson Carbines. This rifle is the least valuable of my carbines and therefore is the one I use most for chronographing and testing loads; it's the guinea pig of the bunch. Fortunately it's also a reasonably accurate rifle. I also test loads with a 1st Generation Universal; I know, heresy, but it saves wear and tear on my original M1's and it's quite accurate too.

              You'll also notice that most of my loads are with cast bullets. The combination of bullet scarcity and the realization that cast bullets are as accurate, and in some cases more accurate than the Hornady 110 gr. FMJ's I'd been loading led to this move. Bullets cast from the RCBS 30-115-SP mold, a 116-118 gr. RN, have a profile very similar to the Hornady 110 gr. FMJ and any load used for the jacketed bullet will yield very similar velocities with the cast bullet, and trajectories, at least to 200 yds., are very similar, although some carbines can be quirky with trajectories with cast bullets. (***A note regarding AL 410- Many handloaders are using AL410 as an alternative to AL2400, HOWEVER, there is no published data for for centerfire cartridges with this powder. I've recently been using AL 410 with cast loads with great success. HOWEVER, I have NOT tried it with jacketed bullets.***)
              I recently began casting a bullet from the discontinued Lyman 311576 mold. This is a gas-check bullet that weighs 125-128 gr. and shoots very, very well, as can be seen. So far I've only run it a shade over 1850 fps and it shoots a bit low at 100 yds. with the 100 yd. sight setting.

              Finally, if you have any questions regarding the loads, etc., fire away.

              Iver Johnson-







              Inland #791609 from RTI-





              More to come later.

              Comment

              • .Steve.
                • Oct 2009
                • 958

                #22
                Very nicely done. Thank you.

                Comment

                • 35 Whelen
                  • Dec 2011
                  • 331

                  #23
                  Originally posted by .Steve. View Post
                  Very nicely done. Thank you.
                  Believe me, it's my pleasure!

                  Comment

                  • 35 Whelen
                    • Dec 2011
                    • 331

                    #24
                    Accurate #4100

                    A few weeks ago I found Accurate #4100 in stock at MidSouth, so I snagged a pound of it to try out.

                    All loads used LC72 brass, Wolf SRM primers and Hornady 110 gr. FMJ bullets seated to 1.680"

                    It's a very...."energetic" powder, to say the least.

                    14.0 grs. - 1966 fps/ES- 9 fps (IBM Carbine)

                    14.5 grs. - 2034 fps/ES- 38 fps (IBM Carbine)
                    14.5 grs. - 1985 fps/ES- 40 fps (1st Gen Universal)

                    15.0 grs. - 2044 fps/ES- 38 fps (IBM Carbine)
                    15.0 grs. - 2088 fps/ES- 20 fps (Inland Carbine #791609)
                    15.0 grs. - 2025 fps/ES- 45 fps (1st Gen Universal)

                    A few random thoughts-

                    - The Western (Accurate) Handloading Guide No. 8 lists 15.5 grs. as the maximum load with this powder and the Hornady bullet, generating a whopping 2164 fps. I may try this load later, but really don't see much use in it unless I decide to go after some hogs with a Carbine, which is possible.

                    - Western powders "Ramshot Enforcer" and Accurate #4100 are one and the same and data is used interchangeably.

                    - I'm out of Hornady 110 gr. FMJ's, so I wasn't able to do as much accuracy testing as I'd like. If anyone has any of these, or actually any commercial (Hornady, Sierra, Speer) 110 gr. FMJ's they'd sell, shoot me a PM.

                    These are the only groups I recorded. My MO is to load 15 rounds, run five over the chronograph, record the results, then shoot five at 100 yds. then five at 200 yds. But occasionally the chronograph is uncooperative, requiring an extra shot or two to get a 5 shot average. Such was the case here and that is why the 200 yd. group is only four shots.





                    I really think the 100 yd. group was strung vertically due to operator error and look forward to trying this load again.

                    So that's all for now. Next I'll probably test some cast loads, so stay tuned.

                    Comment

                    • .Steve.
                      • Oct 2009
                      • 958

                      #25
                      Broken URL for USGI Wood Cleaning Article repaired in text.

                      https://thecmp.org/wood-cleaning-article/

                      Comment

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