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  #1  
Old 11-27-2018, 08:03 AM
sakorick sakorick is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Linneus, Missouri
Posts: 659
Default Irwin Pedersen Carbine.

My favorite is my IP. The story of the birth and death of IP is interesting. Since they never produced one carbine that was accepted by the Ordnance Corps, their contract was cancelled. Saginaw Steering and Gear Corp(GM) was offered the contract and they assumed operations of the plant in April 1st 1943 with approximately 3500 unfit IP carbines. The exact number of IP marked carbines re-built by Saginaw isn't really known but guesstimates of around 2000 and 3542 is generally accepted. So that makes the IP a pretty rare bird. My rifle SN1781229 has the following parts: bolt and firing pin S'G', slide S'G', hammer unmarked dogleg, trigger housing IP, mag catch B-IP, safety IP-W, sear SW-IP, trigger S'G', front sight IPN, rear sight BIP-R.side S- L.side, stock(high wood) boxed S'G',OC crossed canons on R side, IRIP in sling well, handguard IRIP, recoil plate IP-W, 2-43 Underwood barrel .2ME, barrel band none, swivel KVS'G', butt plate PM-IP. The stock was sanded at some time, however, the cartouches still show and I gave up trying to find a replacement years ago.






Last edited by sakorick; 11-27-2018 at 10:03 AM.
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  #2  
Old 11-27-2018, 09:33 AM
tripledoose tripledoose is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Illinois
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Looks really nice! Sanded or not, it's a nice looking high wood S'G' stock.
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  #3  
Old 11-27-2018, 01:28 PM
wtmr wtmr is offline
 
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Location: indiana
Posts: 381
Default Ir-ip

rare stock--you will not see many IR-IP marked oval cut highwood stocks-need to keep it like it is
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  #4  
Old 11-27-2018, 02:15 PM
sakorick sakorick is offline
 
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Location: Linneus, Missouri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtmr View Post
rare stock--you will not see many IR-IP marked oval cut highwood stocks-need to keep it like it is

I know....Looked for one for 5 years and gave up.
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  #5  
Old 11-27-2018, 03:48 PM
Herrmann Herrmann is offline
 
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Location: Terre Haute, IN
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Got a 100% from the CMP auction about 10 years ago. $2K+. Hang tag says it all!
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  #6  
Old 11-27-2018, 04:35 PM
BQ97 BQ97 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sakorick View Post
The exact number of IP marked carbines re-built by Saginaw isn't really known but guesstimates of around 2000 and 3542 is generally accepted.
Saginaw Gear "inherited" 3,542 fully assembled carbines from Irwin Pederson when they assumed control of the Grand Rapids
facility in April 1943. In addition to the fully assembled carbines an unknown number of completed receivers, partially completed carbines, and the majority of parts necessary to complete the former IP contract were also on hand.

Educated estimates based on reported carbines bearing the IP name, the serial number span of those serial numbers, along with other pertinent data puts the number of carbines with the IP name at around 24,000.
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  #7  
Old 11-28-2018, 06:36 AM
sakorick sakorick is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BQ97 View Post
Saginaw Gear "inherited" 3,542 fully assembled carbines from Irwin Pederson when they assumed control of the Grand Rapids
facility in April 1943. In addition to the fully assembled carbines an unknown number of completed receivers, partially completed carbines, and the majority of parts necessary to complete the former IP contract were also on hand.

Educated estimates based on reported carbines bearing the IP name, the serial number span of those serial numbers, along with other pertinent data puts the number of carbines with the IP name at around 24,000.

"By the time their contract terminated on March 22, 1943 the Irwin Pedersen Arms Co had assembled 3,542 carbines, none of which had been accepted by the government." Larry Ruth, War Baby.


"At the time of the takeover there were 3,200 completed carbines, plus an unknown number of receivers in various stages of manufacture." War Baby III with no mention of any rifles that were accepted by the Army. IP had a metallurgy problem and those receivers not passing the hardness tests would have been scrapped plain and simple.

Last edited by sakorick; 11-28-2018 at 06:40 AM.
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  #8  
Old 11-28-2018, 10:06 AM
BQ97 BQ97 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sakorick View Post
"By the time their contract terminated on March 22, 1943 the Irwin Pedersen Arms Co had assembled 3,542 carbines, none of which had been accepted by the government." Larry Ruth, War Baby.


"At the time of the takeover there were 3,200 completed carbines, plus an unknown number of receivers in various stages of manufacture." War Baby III with no mention of any rifles that were accepted by the Army. IP had a metallurgy problem and those receivers not passing the hardness tests would have been scrapped plain and simple.
So how many were there 3,542 or 3,200? You've quoted both numbers. Neither are accurate as to how many receivers bar the IP name.

Within weeks of taking over the Grand Rapids facility Saginaw Gear delivered almost 3000 carbines from GR with another 11,800 a month later. How many were marked Saginaw S'G'? It's likely very few if any were considering William Doerfner stated they used everything they could that IP left behind to get carbines delivered.

So if there were only between 2,000 - 3,542 receivers bearing the IP name per your original post then why in the list of rarest carbines of them all in War Baby II are Irwin Pedersen marked carbines ranked between Inland X suffix carbines, about 10,000, and Underwood S marked carbines, 50,000-? Shouldn't IP marked receivers be between Rock Ola / Inland lineouts at 1,990 and N.P.M. / Underwood lineouts at 7,500? Larry puts the IP marked receivers at about 32,000+/-.

Years ago the Carbine Club published they had just over 1200 IP marked receiver serial numbers reported. So are we to believe roughly half of the IP marked carbines survived all those years and fell into the hands of collectors?

As far as metallurgy problem goes, every manufacturer had issues and every manufacturer had receivers as well as completed carbines fail testing. Why were their contracts not cancelled? IP's contract was different than all the other manufactures, which is why the government was looking for a way out of the IP contract well before IP was supposed to make their first delivery.

The fact is IP marked carbines are not that rare, certainly not as rare as most people are lead to believe and certainly not as rare as UN-Quality marked receivers.
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  #9  
Old 11-28-2018, 10:58 AM
sakorick sakorick is offline
 
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Everyone has their opinions BQ, and I'm not challenging yours or anyone else's. I agree with UN-Quality marked receivers being extremely rare. I just reported what Ruth says in both books and have no earthly idea why they differ.
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  #10  
Old 11-29-2018, 11:01 AM
vagrant vagrant is offline
 
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Posts: 547
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IMO, it's a misunderstanding in the way you read the info, sakorick. But they're a high demand item for certain. It looks nice.
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