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  #21  
Old 11-30-2018, 05:58 PM
Newscotlander Newscotlander is offline
 
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Can anyone else see the photos?
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  #22  
Old 11-30-2018, 06:04 PM
kro kro is offline
 
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I could earlier but can't now.
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  #23  
Old 11-30-2018, 06:11 PM
GotSnlB28 GotSnlB28 is offline
 
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They work for me, I could see them earlier as well.
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  #24  
Old 11-30-2018, 06:19 PM
Mike in NC Mike in NC is offline
 
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I couldn't see them earlier, but I can now.

I will have to look at my 176xxxx IP to see how many punch marks it has.

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Can anyone else see the photos?
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  #25  
Old 11-30-2018, 06:48 PM
wizzer wizzer is offline
 
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Pics showing up on my desktop.
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  #26  
Old 11-30-2018, 06:52 PM
sakorick sakorick is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Newscotlander View Post
I don't think it is that simple. Have you ever looked at an IP receiver? Most of the early ones that I've seen have multiple hardness test marks on the right side, rear of the receiver and on the bottom of the receiver. This suggests to me that they made several attempts to get the hardness right.




I think you are partially correct as Saginaw took those receivers and re heat treated them, then many of them passed the hardness test. That explains all the many test marks. I think IP's heat treating was partially to blame. The real problem with guessing a number is because you and I nor anyone else was there and the records were poor. I am inclined to think that more exist, however, the actual number is dust in the wind. I would think an early SN would more than likely be a genuine IP marked rifle. There again, nobody knows the date that Saginaw got their roll stamps going. I have learned a lot from this thread and thank all the contributors for their input, much of which is well thought out. The other thing that is at issue is the number of milling cuts it took to make one of these. The number is over 500, so these receivers weren't cranked out real fast and IP didn't get their milling equipment in a timely manor. The government gave extensions to other manufactures so I think IP, at the end of the day, was screwe*!

Last edited by sakorick; 11-30-2018 at 07:08 PM.
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  #27  
Old 11-30-2018, 06:59 PM
Mike in NC Mike in NC is offline
 
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As far as the earlier serial numbers are concerned, it is documented that early serial numbers which would normally be associated with an IP marking have been used on later production S'G' carbines. Probably cases of serial numbers of scrapped IP receivers being used later during S'G' production. What seems to be one of the better clues as to when an IP or S'G' carbine was assembled is the associated barrel date.

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Originally Posted by sakorick View Post
I think you are partially correct as Saginaw took those receivers and re heat treated them, then many of them passed the hardness test. That explains all the many test marks. The real problem with guessing a number is because you and I nor anyone else was there and the records were poor. I am inclined to think that more exist, however, the actual number is dust in the wind. I would think an early SN would more than likely be a genuine IP marked rifle. There again, nobody knows the date that Saginaw got their roll stamps going. I have learned a lot from this thread and thank all the contributors for their input much of which is well thought out.
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  #28  
Old 11-30-2018, 07:10 PM
wtmr wtmr is offline
 
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Location: indiana
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Barrel dates and cartouche differences are the key to up and sg guns. Kind of a fingerprint orzo called dna
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  #29  
Old 11-30-2018, 09:05 PM
vagrant vagrant is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike in NC View Post
As far as the earlier serial numbers are concerned, it is documented that early serial numbers which would normally be associated with an IP marking have been used on later production S'G' carbines. Probably cases of serial numbers of scrapped IP receivers being used later during S'G' production. What seems to be one of the better clues as to when an IP or S'G' carbine was assembled is the associated barrel date.
Because of this topic I searched a bunch of IPs on the web. There was a reference by someone several years ago on an obscure board stating he has one with a 1.8 serial number and a Buffalo Arms barrel. That would be one rare bird wouldn't it now having that late of a serial. Of course we don't know if the barrel is original and I couldn't find a picture of it, but BA could be probable if that receiver was held in production. It would also support that many receivers were stamped and later finished by Grand Rapids.
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  #30  
Old 11-30-2018, 09:28 PM
microwaveguy microwaveguy is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old-Win View Post
If Saginaw Grand Rapids took over in early April of 43', how long did it take to get up speed before they were actually turning out carbines? What's the earliest S'G' serial number with barrel date that would indicate when that was? What serial number block did they start with first or did they use both blocks at the same time?

As another data point ..... my 1.77mil has an underwood 3-43 barrel
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