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Old 04-16-2017, 02:10 PM
Bubblehead751 Bubblehead751 is offline
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 128
Default Carbine Saga Continues

Got to the range again after replacing and staking in a new gas piston nut and piston. That part held just fine. One problem solved

About every 4th round the handguard would pop off. Replaced the barrel band spring with a spare I had as it was a little rounded off. Think that is licked

After about 12 rounds, it had 5 failures to fire in a row. They looked like light strikes, but I'm not convinced this is not related to old ammo that got damp. I am going to try some fresh ammunition, but any advice for the newb would be very welcome.

Anything else that would cause these failures to fire?

how far should the firing pin stick out of its hole?

Any other advice?
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Old 04-16-2017, 02:21 PM
mad_mardigan mad_mardigan is offline
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Indiana
Posts: 50

Maybe a weak hammer spring. Not sure about the firing pin, if it passes a visual inspection it should be fine. What ammo?
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Old 04-16-2017, 02:30 PM
Bubblehead751 Bubblehead751 is offline
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 128

Thank you and Good Question. I have some that I'm sure are reloads and others that are Seller and Bellot. They are all from about the 70's I think. I definitely need to try some fresh ammo.

It just seemed weird that we did not have a failure to fire and then had 5 in a row. Its probably the ammo, but it just felt mechanical to have it fire fine then not at all.

Any other thoughts.
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Old 04-16-2017, 02:32 PM
rg1911 rg1911 is offline
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Laramie, WY
Posts: 71

Per TM9-1276, protrusion is .048" to .065".

Also, when you get a click-no-bang, check the position of the bolt lugs. If, for instance, the large right-side lug is not completely seated, it is possible for the hammer to drop but the headspace will be too large to allow a solid strike. Probably just as well; otherwise you could experience a firing with an unlocked bolt.

Speaking of headspace and case length, have you checked both with the proper gauges? Since it happened to me, I can guarantee that if your case length is excessive, the bolt will close partially, but not far enough to permit a solid strike. The carbine is very unforgiving about excessive case length.

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Old 04-16-2017, 02:38 PM
Bubblehead751 Bubblehead751 is offline
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 128

I'm guessing they are finicky about headspace too?
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Old 04-16-2017, 03:13 PM
GM1MAN GM1MAN is offline
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 567

Funny that you should post this question. Was just at the range the other day with an Underwood Carbine that I have owned and shot for the last 15 years or so. Never had a problem until this past Friday.

First 15 rounds went fine, then the same issue, light firing pin strike, Failure to fire. What the heck, then realized that bolt was not fully closed, which thankfully, resulted in a no fire situation. I also had great difficulty with extracting the unfired cartridge from the chamber.

The one thing that was different this time, the ammunition. I was using Aguila FMJ that I had purchased a while ago. The chamber, which had been previously clean, was filthy and it appeared that the problem was that the round was not fully chambering.

I brushed out the chamber with a stainless steel brush and was back in business. The rest of the rounds fired okay, but were extremely dirty.

Another fellow was firing a brand new commercial Inland Carbine and was looking at me because he was having the same problems. He was firing Aguila as well, but thought it was the rifle.

We then both switched to R-P and had zero problems.

You may be right, it could be the ammo.

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Old 04-16-2017, 03:54 PM
HB of CJ HB of CJ is offline
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: 42N -123W OR USA Kinda
Posts: 1,230
Default Fun And Easy To Trouble Shoot ...

Could be the ammo? Are you seeing dimpling on the primer on the rounds that did not quite chamber and fortunately did not go off? If yes, then perhaps, (maybe) a dirty chamber or maybe, (maybe) over length brass factory ammo. Would not be the first time. 1.30" usually is the standard max?

1.285" would be safer? Shorter than that should be OK. There seems to be a relationship between loose head space but safe to shoot USGI Carbines and slightly long brass? Good to go. A very tight good head space Carbine may enjoy slightly shorter brass and be happy?

Also closely examine the rear of the bolt. Look for shinny spots were the hammer could be striking the rear bolt face and not the firing pin. Also check the hammer. This will also create light primer strike failures to fire along with the bolt lugs not quite locking up. This applies with round bolts.

We do not use flat late type bolts sossss I would have no way of checking if that would also apply. It is also possible, (but unlikely) something is not quite happy with both the Carbines shot off, especially when using a particular type of factory ammo. We have found this out with S&B FMJ.

USGI Carbines will shoot with short brass. Hard on the works but they will shoot off fine. It is the slightly long brass cases that cause the problems, particularly with a USGI Carbine with very tight head space. Hope this helps. Respectfully.

Last edited by HB of CJ; 04-16-2017 at 10:37 PM. Reason: meant as questions and not fact for what do I know. :)
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Old 04-16-2017, 04:29 PM
309Carbine 309Carbine is offline
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: South Mississippi
Posts: 242

On another forum some weeks ago, another shooter was having similar issues and S&B was involved. Any fresh ammo I purchase, I measure each-and-every round B4 I shoot it. I reload so I KNOW exactly what I load back in the gun from that point on, but you never can be sure with some brands of commercial ammo. Aquila suffers constant complaints about shooting dirty and you can find those comments all over the place.

Last edited by 309Carbine; 04-16-2017 at 04:41 PM.
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Old 04-16-2017, 04:54 PM
Bubblehead751 Bubblehead751 is offline
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 128

This what I dig about this forum. I knew I could not be the only person to ever have this problem.

I had not thought about the shooting dirty part there. I did notice today while looking the rifle over that the mouth of the chamber was very black. There was even a black stain on the front of the recoil plate that was not there before.

I'm going to clean the chamber up and buy a box of PPU or Remington ammo. I'll also take my cleaning kit with me next time.

When it fires this is my wife's and son's favorite gun to shoot. If I can get this one running properly, I might even get another in better condition for my son.

Thanks again for the advice.
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Old 04-16-2017, 06:40 PM
Kansasbobcat Kansasbobcat is offline
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Texas
Posts: 507
Default Carbine saga

Clean, lube and test with late date LC ammo. If there are still problems changing recoil and bolt springs is a good idea.
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