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  #21  
Old 09-25-2017, 12:01 PM
Mark Johnson Mark Johnson is offline
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All of your complaints have been heard. I apologize for this "cluster". We are lessening the software burden on the operating system at Talladega. The targets are not the issue, software is the culprit... We are in the process of counseling CMP staff and conducting an in-depth investigation. I will be glad to discuss all issues with the Match Director. We have a plan of corrective action moving forward. We continue on...
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  #22  
Old 09-25-2017, 12:03 PM
scssa_ar scssa_ar is offline
 
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Thanks again for the responses. Here's a pretty good list of the targets that had problems during the EIC match. 14, 15, 18 , 19, 20, 22, 23, 25.
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  #23  
Old 09-25-2017, 12:07 PM
Mark Johnson Mark Johnson is offline
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All of these folks were taken care of after the system was rebooted and placed in practice mode? The match then continued on?
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  #24  
Old 09-25-2017, 12:19 PM
scssa_ar scssa_ar is offline
 
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Only after the match director convinced the CRO to give them a refire. The CRO was going to only move them and force them to take the misses.

Last edited by scssa_ar; 09-25-2017 at 12:45 PM.
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  #25  
Old 09-25-2017, 08:46 PM
K31Schmidt K31Schmidt is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Alabama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scssa_ar View Post
Thanks again for the responses. Here's a pretty good list of the targets that had problems during the EIC match. 14, 15, 18 , 19, 20, 22, 23, 25.
And #12 at 200
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  #26  
Old 09-25-2017, 09:07 PM
Blued-Steel Blued-Steel is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
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Mr. Johnson,

I am glad to see you personally replying to these messages. When I heard you could pull video, please pull from the pistol matches as well. I did not have any target problems, but your crew conducting the pistol match did not seem familiar with how the call the line and need additional training.

It was very obvious during the .22 EIC when they would rush through the line commands then say "ready on the firing line" pause then say "ready on the firing line" a second time then turn on the red lights for the 3 second pause to green. They did better job for the Service Pistol EIC.

It took several minutes (probably more than 10) to reset for a refire string during the .22 match. That was after telling the shooter (me) to "go ahead and fire your last four". Which can't be done for timed fire, it has to be a new 5 round string. I explained that to the CMP line officer (very nice guy) while showing him a 5 round mag in my hand ready to go. Then it took at least 10 minutes.

I felt the pistol targets were great, I shot my .22 poorly because I let the line calling get in the head and bother me. Service Pistol was focused and shot it well. No scoring issues (and no second "ready on the firing line either). It was a 9 hour round trip just to shoot those two pistol matches.

The people running the pistol range just needed more training since calling the line is much more than reading commands. I have been planning to come up for the EICs in Oct. Giving it a second thought since that day.
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  #27  
Old 10-15-2017, 11:34 PM
geeck geeck is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
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If it's not "proprietary" information some of us would welcome the chance to go over, in-depth, the technical specifications of the communication layer(s) of TMP target system.

In the industrial automation world if your network is not deterministic, or processing speeds not fast enough to accommodate the frequency of the sensors , or the number of sensors overload the network, or the software interface is not tuned properly YOU WILL LOSE FIELD SENSOR DATA!!! The more pressure (more targets) you on a system the more trouble you will have.

Without knowing any of the particulars it sure seems like there needs to be a review of the technology by a disinterested third party. (someone other than Konsberg) The use of a PLC, or other industrial data acquisition, or sub-processing of the I/O, or software interface changes....might be in order, if this system is ever going to work.
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  #28  
Old 11-16-2017, 09:02 PM
scssa_ar scssa_ar is offline
 
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Location: Birmingham, AL
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Well, I thought the issues with the state match were resolved, apparently not. Just got an email from the CMP saying the EIC matches were disqualified. The reasons given are yet another example of the CMP trying to cover its own failings. Not only did she GREATLY downplay the effects of the system not working properly, but went out of her way to shift the blame with false information. Here's why:

1. The match director submitted the score cards on the Monday following the match (Sep. 18) with a CMP issued and labeled envelope. Apparently, the label created by the CMP was for the wrong address within the CMP. It went to wrong department. This was well outside the control of the match director.
2. Even match program stated that there were going to be two relays. I personally heard some of the conversation among the CMP staff as to whether or not have a second relay. The CMP, not the match director, decided that in the interest of time there would only be one relay per match due to the low turnout. They stated that it was legitimate because the computer system was keeping track of the match as well.

And here's the letter:

"Dear EIC Match Competitors,

The Alabama State Championship EIC Rifle, EIC Pistol & .22 Rimfire Pistol EIC Match, fired on September 16-17, 2017 has been disqualified. All competitors can opt to receive a refund of their $10.00 EIC Match fees or you may fire in the EIC Match(es) at the Talladega 600 for no charge. Please email me with your choice of refund or Talladega 600 match.

The CMP took many things into consideration on the disqualification of this event. The scorecards were not received from the match director until November 7, 2017. Even though the match was fired at the CMP Talladega Marksmanship Park it was still a club EIC match run by an outside club match director (not an employee of the CMP). This match director had to follow CMP Competitions rules including returning the scorecards. Another factor in the disqualification is the way the scorecards were filled out. EIC match competitors can not score for themselves and for EIC Rifle it must be marked if the competitor stood prior to the rapid fire stage.

We are aware that there were some issues with the system. But the issues should not have affected how the outside match director ran the event and how the scorecards were filled out. The match director has been notified about the disqualification.

Moving forward the CMP will be implementing rules for clubs to hold an event at the CMP Talladega Marksmanship Park. We welcome clubs to hold events here but from now on EIC events will not be run by an outside match director but by the CMP.

We do apologize for all the inconvenience this has caused our competitors.



If you have any questions please feel free to email me.

Thank you,
Christina

Christina Roguski
Competition Associate
Civilian Marksmanship Program
Phone: 419-635-2141 ext. 714 Fax: 419-635-2802
[email protected]"


Mike
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  #29  
Old 11-16-2017, 09:14 PM
Craftsman Craftsman is offline
 
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Location: South Florida
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How could the EIC match not be disqualified, if shooters were allowed to self score?
That doesn't sound like the CMP's cluster, it's the outside match directors.
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  #30  
Old 11-16-2017, 09:22 PM
missilegeek missilegeek is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craftsman View Post
How could the EIC match not be disqualified, if shooters were allowed to self score?
That doesn't sound like the CMP's cluster, it's the outside match directors.
Strictly speaking, the target system scored. They refer to e-target scorers as "verifiers".
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