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  #51  
Old 04-15-2018, 01:55 PM
ZvenoMan ZvenoMan is online now
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: AL
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So I got a 1903A3 drill rifle at the south store on 7 Apr. See the thread here:
http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=226660

As received. Oh, another plus is it was spray painted silver. That protects the metal but is easily removed unlike chrome plating.



I knew the stock was cracked (probably why it was only $150). The stock and HG look great otherwise; maybe I can fix it.
I pried open the crack today to clean it out, and noticed the other side was also cracked. I pried that open as well and scrubbed both with MEK (do this outside).
I know I can fix it cosmetically.
I don't think shooting will over-stress it but I was wrong once....
The crack came from smacking the butt on the pavement; it was a Drill rifle, and many get this crack and are retired.
Worse case it will make an excellent display stock.
Either way, it needs reinforcement.
One way is to pin it; probably what I'll do. This is also close to historically correct (stocks would be repaired with pins, but epoxy was invented in WWII).
Another is to route out the inside on each side and lay in some glass cloth and epoxy/Acraglass or similar. This would probably be stronger, but would rule it out of competitions. Probably not a concern.
I'll probably pin it but can go back with the glass cloth later.



Here's the crack I saw:



Here's the surprise:



First I will play with some clamps to determine how many and the best way to clamp it up.
My plan is to tape up the sides and where I don't want the epoxy. Then mix a bit and work in both cracks and clamp it up. After it has cured I will drill for the pins and epoxy them in and dress them when cured.

One comment: I was in Harbor Freight yesterday and noticed all their epoxy (I have used it for non-stock work, and am not impressed) is all 5-minute curing time.
Don't use 5-minute epoxy on stocks. Epoxy is a great stock repair solution, and one reason is that it will penetrate into the wood fibers on either side of the crack. The longer it's not cured the further it will penetrate. 5 minutes as a convenient time to adjust and clamp, but once cured there is no more penetration. So use 30 minute epoxy (Acraglass is an epoxy, and is very popular for this use).
5 minute epoxy is fine for many uses (and often better), but not for wood stock repair.
Use good name brand epoxy for stocks; there are plenty. Just saying.....
There is do it yourself and there is cheap.

Epoxy is thick, and is best used at room temperature (or warmer); cooler will make it thicker and penetrate less. Today is too cool (for Birmingham in April); I'll wait (80 yesterday, low 40s today; Wx app says Wednesday will be 80).
JH
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  #52  
Old 04-20-2018, 08:50 PM
ZvenoMan ZvenoMan is online now
 
Join Date: May 2011
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Some of you may have seen this thread
http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=227079
For when the ad is pulled from Dupage Trading, they advertised a crate of M1 Garand stocks, 225 total (they had 6 crates to sell, now gone):



So of course I ordered a crate and it shipped today.
I hope to find some groups of stocks that have similar grain and color so I can try a few different techniques.
I will entertain suggestions, as long as they are fairly true for a Milsurp (oils and waxes, possibly some stains and dyes; no polyurethane and similar).
I am happy to impartially review any commercial products or systems, just PM me.
Repairs have not been my favorite but I'm sure there will be plenty to keep me busy.
I have my comfort zone so I will try some new to me processes if possible.

For the Hackberry posse, the finished stocks will (not all) wind up being sold (duh) so you have a solution.

I will also offer to trade 1 Hackberry stock set for 1 finished stock; I will see what we can do to make it look better.
7 May 18: Offer closed, I have 2 trades pending.

For the record I looked at some in the SS; they were not as bad as the threads (which seem to have no photos) indicate. But, it won't take much to improve the color and spray on finish.

This project should attract the ladies as well.........
JH

Last edited by ZvenoMan; 05-07-2018 at 06:30 PM. Reason: Trade offer closed
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  #53  
Old 04-21-2018, 10:41 AM
Lukester Lukester is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Texas
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ZvenoMan,
As mentioned in our quick PM convo, here for a group therapy session is what I assume to be a Turkish return I bought in person at the OKC Games. WRA FG with a 2&2 LMR barrel and a nice, even worn finish all over. The stock was as dark and sticky and rough as any I've ever held - with obviously decades of "character". Can't find any "P's" or left-side markings, but it does have some cool rack numbers stamped on the butt and others on the grip heel. You'll also see a repair on the toe where a piece of wood was added w/ dowels. I plan to keep the wood with the rifle --- sort of keeping it's "story" intact.

Some of the "before" pics are obvious - showing the old, dark dirt and grease. The "after" or interim pics show the wood after multiple spray/soak/scrub/wipe/repeat sessions using only orange degreaser, basic scotchbrite pad, and a small brush to get cosmo out of the deeper dents, corners, etc. (and of course yards of paper towels...) It actually brightened/cleaned up a bit more w/ more sessions after the pics were taken.

Looking for your input on what to do next. To the extent I have one yet, my tentative plan is:
- No sanding or steaming. (prefer not to remove any wood, and there are simply too many dents, dings, etc. to think about steaming them all)
- Using the 50/50 mix of BLO/Turp. for the first 2 or 3 hand-rubbed coats. (rub on/in by hand, wipe off excess)
- Then switching to just BLO for final coats applied the same way.

Would you approach this one any differently?

Thanks so much,
Luke

















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  #54  
Old 04-21-2018, 12:46 PM
ZvenoMan ZvenoMan is online now
 
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Hi Lukester;
Nice looking stock, has potential.
First, in the upside down picture, is that a crack at the forend? If so, get some closeups and we need to fix it. If not (scratch, drying unevenly) no issues.

Since you have found no USGI cartouches it may be a foreign made or otherwise replacement stock. Either way, it may have no real collector value so you may not need to consider keeping it original?
If a purist, ignore this part, and if you are reading this and are a "I want others to treat their milsurps my way", ignore this as well.
This stock may benefit from a light to moderates sanding, just to smooth and even the wood, but enough to remove the stampings/rack numbers. No belt sanders, just a sanding block or vibrating pad sander. Just to smooth it, may not get all dents out but to even it up. Put the buttplate on frequently to check so you don't overdo sanding smaller than the buttplate. Careful around corners/edges so you don't change the contour. When done, use a dowel or socket wrapped in sandpaper to get the grasping grooves looking the same as the rest of the stock, and even out the corners by hand.
You could take it down pretty far, but go slow, keep the stamps and see how it goes. Let the stock tell you when it's done.

Or not. It has character, is solid and will look good and be shootable.
If you don't sand, then consider a quick hand sanding to remove the raised grain. a few minutes tops; NO power tools. But this is not required. Remember, once you have the 1st coat of oil on it will tell you where it's going. You can lightly sand while the 1st coat is wet, or wit until it's dry and lightly sand if you think it needs it then.

Stain? Always tough to tell. Here is a tip: If not sure, rub in a coat of oil, that will darken it and give you a clue how it will look. If too light, use the citrus (or PP, whatever) to take it back off. I have heard some say just wipe a wet rag on the butt, that will darken much like oil; if too light then let it dray and stain. If not too light, let it dry (sand any grain that may have raised) and oil. I rarely use stain; I used dye once in this thread and that was unique. You can always stain later, it's hard to unstain.
Many stains available, USSR is well known to look good on Garands.

When it is time for the oil, even if you didn't strip it down, use a scotchbrite for the 1st coat or 2. It will remove any residue. Some people have rubbed in the 1st few coats using wet and dry sandpaper, the sanding dust + oil fills the pores and makes it much smoother. That may not be good for this kind of wood plus the "character" but a thought.
Anyway, I use scotchbrite to rub in the 1st 2 or so coats, wiping dry after 30-60 min. 50/50 mix for this.
Then rub in full strength oil, as many coats until it's done.
I know I gave you 27 different ways, but if you do a step (prep for stain, by light sanding), stop and evaluate you can decide what is next.

If you always take the conservative approach at each decision you will wind up with a good looking non-screwed up shootable stock, and ideas of what you wished you did for next time. Not really a "loss". Add a step to the next stock and see how it works for you.
I can think of a dozen different directions to take this stock, all would look good.
JH
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  #55  
Old 04-21-2018, 01:18 PM
ZvenoMan ZvenoMan is online now
 
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OK, update on the 1903A3 drill rifle.
I will take the parade shine whatever finish off later, it will protect the stock during my repair.
First, as above, pry open the cracks, see where they lead, and clean them out (acetone, MEK, many ways are fine). LET DRY.
Then decide how you will clamp or secure it. I like epoxy because it creates only heat, not pressure. It does not expand like gorilla glue (but the expansion is what forces it into the wood; the penetration is why epoxy and gorilla glue are good for this).
I used small bar claps, with popsicle sticks to pad the wood (because craftsmen don't call them craft sticks?).
Before you get out the glue, tape up the wood where glue doesn't belong. Why? because gluing may not go as planned, and you will be working glue into the crack, moving it and glue on the wood will penetrate and need to be addressed later. Most likely you will get glue on you hands, which you protected with gloves, and instead of changing gloves 23 times if the stock is tapes then drive on. So tape it off.





Note the gloves. Take this as a hint.

Of course I forgot more pics, but after taping, prop open the crack(s) with something (toothpick, popsicle stick, razor blade, whatever) and get the glue ready.
I used 30 min epoxy (Bob Smith brand; T88 is also great; devcon, plenty of name brands. Don't use 5 min). Move the sticks propping open the cracks, and make sure both sides of the crack are covered. Small amounts I squeeze onto a peice of cardboard, mix well and apply with a toothpick. Larger amounts (this) I mix in a disposable plastic cup (a plastic water bottle cap works) and apply with a toothpick or popsicle stick.
When the glue is fully in the crack, remove the props (if used) and clamp closed. Wipe the excess (if you don't have any you didn't use enough glue). A wet paper towel will help remove more, but don't worry too much.
30 minutes is nice, leave the %&## thing alone overnight. No good will come from you watching it, and after the 30 minutes you won't be correcting it. Come back the next day and get to work.
Here it is after a day, and with the tape removed.







All glues, no mess on the outside. See why I didn't remove the old finish? I could have wiped the inside better; the action won't fit now, but that is not a problem, we will address that soon.

While that was drying I sprayed the handguard with oven cleaner. Make sure you read the label, it is the rye soap you are after. 2 soaks did nothing to the finish so it must be poly or something. No issues, we'll try a few other approaches.
I did notice a small crack in the handguard. I flexed it and pulled and found a few more cracks. I made sure to locate all of them:



Well, it will match the stock.
JH

Last edited by ZvenoMan; 04-21-2018 at 01:23 PM.
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  #56  
Old 04-21-2018, 05:27 PM
Lukester Lukester is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Texas
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Thanks for the suggestions and advice, ZvenoMan. I see in that one pic where it looks like a crack, but I double-checked. No crack - just a dent toward the end that looks darker... and it happens to line up perfectly with a longer grain line.

Looking more closely at the whole thing now that it's completely cleaned, I believe you're right about at least knocking down the raised grain and overall roughness of the stock. That will likely help it a ton - without taking away anything that I choose to preserve... provided I take it easy, conservative, etc. like you mentioned.

I believe after the sanding I'll start w/ a scotch-brited coat of just the 50/50 mix and see how that looks. Based on the wood's coloring when it's wet, I think the oil alone (w/ no stain mixed in) may be dark enough to suit me. We'll see.

I'll check back in with updates along the way.

LK
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  #57  
Old 04-21-2018, 05:33 PM
ZvenoMan ZvenoMan is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukester View Post
I believe after the sanding I'll start w/ a scotch-brited coat of just the 50/50 mix and see how that looks. Based on the wood's coloring when it's wet, I think the oil alone (w/ no stain mixed in) may be dark enough to suit me. We'll see.

I'll check back in with updates along the way.

LK
Just remember, go slow with the sanding and if looks like it's working, keep going.
Keep us informed with the pics
jh
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  #58  
Old 04-22-2018, 12:09 PM
ZvenoMan ZvenoMan is online now
 
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Back to the stock.
I glued it last week, so it was fully cured. I used my Dremel with a sanding drum and knocked down the outside epoxy, but not all the way. Just ground down the bumps.
I used the Dremel on the inside and ground down to the wood but carefully.
Of course the corners can't be reached so I carved out the epoxy with an Exacto and dressed with a needle file. The action fits fine now, and once the epoxy was sanded I can see that the crack was clamped well, there is no step.
The outside requires care. Not only do I not want to use the Dremel because it may gouge the surface, I also want to preserve the contour. Use a sanding block; do not use plain sandpaper in your hands. A sanding block is as easy as a small block of wood with sandpaper wrapped around it or something store bought. I have several scraps of wood and plastic and tubes so get in the tough spots.
The best tool I have found are the sanding sticks sold for nail care. $ tree has them but they are pretty cheap. I find the WM brand (black for course) work better and last longer. Hint: wet sand; the sanding media will last longer, it helps remove the sawdust, and a bonus, the epoxy will appear darker than the wood, as will low spots, so you can measure your progress.
I am pretty far along with the right side. The left has some cartouches and stamps so will require some care; more to follow. Due to the fact that I am sanding through the finish and top layer of wood, I may not be able to blend the color; if so then I'll have to take the stock down evenly. With the number of dents and gouges coupled with the fact that this is a recovered drill rifle, I won't loose any sleep if I lose the cartouches.
I will drill for the pins at some point.









JH
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  #59  
Old 04-27-2018, 12:17 PM
Polock Polock is offline
 
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This is a great resource! Many ideas for my grungy stocks---
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  #60  
Old 04-29-2018, 12:57 PM
ZvenoMan ZvenoMan is online now
 
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Today is M1 stock day.
I put most of the stocks in a storage unit; brought about 50 home.
A few notes about what Dupage sent:
They were stacked as seen on their website, neatly in a FedEx carton. 700 pounds worth of carton. Arrived on the rainiest day this year; hence going to my storage instead of home for sorting.
Yesterday I sorted through them for 30 mn, and picked out some to start with. There are about 25 of the orange birch wood, those have a nice film of grease (not cosmoline) on them; they appear to be in good condition. The remainder are dark, mostly dirty and one had the stock ferrule. 25-40% have buttplates.
I saw no obvious firewood. Plenty of dents and dings, but overall it is clear that Dupage selected the worst for photos; what was received is clearly in better overall condition. I did find one cracked in half on one side through the magwell, should be an easy fix. I brought it home and will photograph it eventually.
I will work on 2 today, I need to do some other work unfortunately....
Today I will just do an oil scrub on some random stocks. Here are the required supplies:



The gloves are optional, but as I have some documents to review today it will make cleanup easier. Today I will use the remains of my BLO scrub mix; it's 50/50 BLO and Turpentine in an old water bottle. It's about empty so I mixed a new batch out of what you see in the pic. Nothing fancy, but I suggest using real BLO (or RLO if that makes you happy). Don't use the "BLO (or Tung) Finish"; that has other chemicals and most do not get good results on stocks. Keep it simple for now. The green pad is a 1/3 sheet of scotchbrite. It is abrasive enough to smooth the wood and get the thinned oil in deep. 00000 or so steel wool works just as good, but is dirtier (the material breaks down; the steel wool leaves pieces of steel, this leaves pieces of polymer).
I read something on a forum a few years ago that most finishing grade steel wool is made in China (no problems with that), but is of a more brittle steel and thus breaks down into smaller particles. I compared some US made to China and clearly saw the difference. Some say the steel will embed into the wood an may cause problems later (humidity=rust). I switched to scotchbrite and find it works just as wekll (for me) and the overall cost is the same. The last few times in HD and Lowes I checked the steel wool, the "American" brand was made in China. There may be nothing to it, but I believe everything I read on the internet so there it is.
I scrub pretty hard with a soaked scotchbrite pad and leave it wet for 30-60 min (I have not found the time to be very critical; at least 30 min. Just wipe dry before it hardens, a few hours?). Then wipe dry. I will do this a few times until the oil looks clean while rubbing; you know then you have cleaned it as much as it will get with this method. Wipe dry each time. Remember that oil-soaked rags can self-ignite, so deal with that properly (drop in a bucket of water, lay flat on the driveway, whatever. Don't put them in the trash). For these coats paper towels work fine.

The Waffle House coffee is pretty important as well.

Regarding the Turpentine; the idea here is to thin the oil with a compatable solvent that will allow it to penetrate, will evaporate, and will not affect later coats. Many people use mineral spirits. I tried it, works OK, but for no real reason I prefer turpentine. I only use the thinned mix for this "oil scrub"; just a few sessions. I use full strength oil to finish the stocks.

I'll try some stocks using my standard purple power spray eventually; I'm impatient and want to get a few cleaned up.
JH

Last edited by ZvenoMan; 05-11-2018 at 07:07 PM.
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