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  #21  
Old 08-13-2019, 09:47 PM
cplnorton cplnorton is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpm View Post
That makes sense, first I've heard of that issue too. Thanks!

That's a pretty curt letter from Winchester, I'd say they were quite displeased!
Winchester had a huge ego. I have duplicated the files at Cody for WWI and when you read them their ego just flows through the page at you. They thought they were the best there was for sure!

It looks like you can narrow down that 630,000 M1903's to before November 1918 now.

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  #22  
Old 08-14-2019, 07:18 AM
navyrifleman navyrifleman is offline
 
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[QUOTE=Rick the Librarian;1859352]
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Originally Posted by navyrifleman View Post
The Archangel based Michigan troops had the Polar Bear as their unit emblem and it was painted on their Helmets.

You might be confusing the Michigan unit (339th Infantry) with the 31st Infantry, that saw service in Siberia. They carry a polar bear insignia on their regimental crest.
We are both correct regarding the Polar Bear. Both units have it as part of their official crest. The 339th was in Archangel, while the 31st served in Siberia.

Here is some info on the 339th's crest emblem:

The polar bear on its blue background is copied from the unofficial shoulder patch of the North Russian Expeditionary Force, of which this Regiment was a part during the years 1918-1919. The Regiment, organized in 1917, was made up to a large extent of men from Detroit, and was known locally as "Detroit's Own". ... The emblem's motto (in Russian Cyrillic letters) is pronounced as though spelled in English "shtyk reshayet"... Literally translated: "The bayonet settles it".
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  #23  
Old 08-14-2019, 07:21 AM
milprileb milprileb is online now
 
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Was not the Mosin M91 (Rem or NEW mfg) used by US Troops in Siberia post WWI ???
Somewhere I read they were due to 03 firing pins cracking in Siberian cold temps .
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  #24  
Old 08-14-2019, 08:39 AM
SpearheadOrd SpearheadOrd is offline
 
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Guess I contributed to the confusion by not being clear earlier, there were 2 geographically separated US AEF's in Russia.

AEF North Russia (339th IN Reg, 310th Engineers) and were near Archangel.
AEF Siberia (27th and 31st Infantry Regiments, plus large numbers of volunteers from the 12th, 13th, and 62nd Infantry Regiments of the 8th Division).

Regarding Win M1917's to France. i thought that only the Win 1917s produced before parts standardization was established were banned for shipment to the AEF in France. The early ones were all ordered marked w/ a five pointed star stamp.


Airborne, Mark
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  #25  
Old 08-14-2019, 11:52 AM
dman514 dman514 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpearheadOrd View Post
Regarding Win M1917's to France. i thought that only the Win 1917s produced before parts standardization was established were banned for shipment to the AEF in France. The early ones were all ordered marked w/ a five pointed star stamp.


Airborne, Mark

Early Winchesters had part interchange issues. They were indeed marked with a five point star in a circle on the left side of the receiver. If I remember correctly the problem was rectified around January or February of 1918.
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  #26  
Old 08-14-2019, 11:58 AM
cplnorton cplnorton is offline
 
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Everything I'm reading so far says all WRA's were not to be shipped to France at least till the end of July 1918. I have not read all the final months docs but from what I have read so far its unlikely the ban was ever lifted.

I keep on seeing it over and over that WRA was stateside only and WRA was not happy because of it
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  #27  
Old 08-14-2019, 01:10 PM
navyrifleman navyrifleman is offline
 
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Default US use of Mosin Nagants

Quote:
Originally Posted by milprileb View Post
Was not the Mosin M91 (Rem or NEW mfg) used by US Troops in Siberia post WWI ???
Somewhere I read they were due to 03 firing pins cracking in Siberian cold temps .
I am not certain if US Troops in the Vladivostok (Siberia) theater were issued the Mosin Nagant. I know that they worked closely with Czechoslovak troops who were so armed. The only photo I have seen of the 31st US Infantry Regiment in Vladivostok shows them on a march in winter uniforms and carrying US rifles (I could not make out if they were 1903's or 1917's but definitely NOT Mosin Nagants). It is quite possible that they were later issued the Mosin Nagant.

The troops of the 339th Infantry Regiment in Archangel were issued Mosin Nagants before the Armistice which ended WW I. Allied troops took and occupied Archangel on 4 August 1918, and the 339th (along with a few other units of the 85th Division) arrived there in late September 1918. I have a photo of them "passing in review" on 2 October 1918.

In photos I have seen of the 339th (taken at different times), they are armed with the Mosin Nagant and with its long bayonet always fixed. (Possibly why their motto about the bayonet.) Ammunition was carried in the standard US 10 pocket belt.

Here is an interesting article regarding the US "Polar Bear Expedition" of 1918-1919:

https://msuarchives.wordpress.com/2018/11/

Last edited by navyrifleman; 08-14-2019 at 02:05 PM. Reason: added link
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  #28  
Old 08-14-2019, 03:17 PM
bandhunter31 bandhunter31 is offline
 
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I find the losses of rifles to be much higher than i imagined....... really makes you think about WWII small arm losses...... considering the scale of that conflict was even greater than WWI and was a more mobile war......
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  #29  
Old 08-14-2019, 05:19 PM
RHScott RHScott is offline
 
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One can see why the Germans were so compelled to scrub the field and rebuild weapons with their lower production of new weapons.
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  #30  
Old 08-14-2019, 05:20 PM
Kaliman Kaliman is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RHScott View Post
One can see why the Germans were so compelled to scrub the field and rebuild weapons with their lower production of new weapons.
Good point. Iím sure raw material shortages had an impact as well.
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