Go Back   CMP Forums > CMP Competitions > National Match AR
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 12-06-2018, 09:59 AM
WindLogik WindLogik is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Washington State
Posts: 2,215
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by milprileb View Post
Well....a few of you reading his know your NM grade M16's do right well at 600 yds and shorter ranges and you should be wondering....what does Valkyrie do my M16NM doesn't already do?
It has one key feature... It's a new caliber and is useful for sniping money from a person's bank account. Nothing more than a cash grab.

There are some 6mm AR wildcats that perform just okay at 1000, but I've never really looked at an AR as a long range rifle.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 12-06-2018, 05:43 PM
Gewehr43 Gewehr43 is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 2,259
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WindLogik View Post
It has one key feature... It's a new caliber and is useful for sniping money from a person's bank account. Nothing more than a cash grab.

There are some 6mm AR wildcats that perform just okay at 1000, but I've never really looked at an AR as a long range rifle.
Ok..... what have you or do you shoot at 1000 yds then?
What have you found that works for you?
__________________
Service Rifle.... RIP .... 1884-2015
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 12-06-2018, 09:35 PM
WindLogik WindLogik is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Washington State
Posts: 2,215
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gewehr43 View Post
Ok..... what have you or do you shoot at 1000 yds then?
What have you found that works for you?
I have shot long range with a palma rifle and other various prone rifles for many years. 308 is my favorite long range caliber simply because I like the palma category. The .243 or new 6 Creedmoor are wonderful 1000 yard rifles. I developed a 6mm wildcat AR cartridge for an XTC match rifle, and have shot that at 1000. With a 105 berger, it is equivalent to a 6BR, which is a good 1000 yard cartridge in mild conditions. There is no good reason to shoot an AR type rifle at 1000, so it's not something I have put time into.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 12-06-2018, 09:47 PM
Talyn1 Talyn1 is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Montana
Posts: 90
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WindLogik View Post
There is no good reason to shoot an AR type rifle at 1000,
Except for the Camp Perry 1000 Match (6.10 CMP Long Range Courses).
__________________
NRA Life Member

Last edited by Talyn1; 12-06-2018 at 09:49 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 12-06-2018, 09:57 PM
Gewehr43 Gewehr43 is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 2,259
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WindLogik View Post
I have shot long range with a palma rifle and other various prone rifles for many years. 308 is my favorite long range caliber simply because I like the palma category. The .243 or new 6 Creedmoor are wonderful 1000 yard rifles. I developed a 6mm wildcat AR cartridge for an XTC match rifle, and have shot that at 1000. With a 105 berger, it is equivalent to a 6BR, which is a good 1000 yard cartridge in mild conditions. There is no good reason to shoot an AR type rifle at 1000, so it's not something I have put time into.
Have you tried or it seems as though 6.5 Creedmoor doesn’t interest you?
Are there any PRS matches in your area?
__________________
Service Rifle.... RIP .... 1884-2015
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 12-06-2018, 10:00 PM
WindLogik WindLogik is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Washington State
Posts: 2,215
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talyn1 View Post
Except for the Camp Perry 1000 Match (6.10 CMP Long Range Courses).
Okay, I stand by my statement. There is not a good reason to shoot an AR type rifle at 1000 yards. I am aware of CMP and NRA long range competition. The new CMP matches emulate the NRA categories. If you want to shoot a 224 valkyrie in the CMP "match" category, go ahead. You cannot win that category with an AR in any caliber at Nationals. I have shot 556 AR, 308 AR, and M1a service rifles at 1000. Service rifles at 1000 yards is effectively a dead category except for a scant few larger matches (in which, the numbers are still low). I prefer palma rifles and any-irons (CMP Match).
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 12-06-2018, 10:18 PM
WindLogik WindLogik is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Washington State
Posts: 2,215
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gewehr43 View Post
Have you tried or it seems as though 6.5 Creedmoor doesn’t interest you?
Are there any PRS matches in your area?
I have a spectacular 6.5 Creedmoor. I don't shoot PRS. I shoot prone. For prone, there are better calibers than the 6.5 Creedmoor.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 12-07-2018, 12:53 AM
Talyn1 Talyn1 is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Montana
Posts: 90
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WindLogik View Post
Okay, I stand by my statement. There is not a good reason to shoot an AR type rifle at 1000 yards. I am aware of CMP and NRA long range competition. The new CMP matches emulate the NRA categories. If you want to shoot a 224 valkyrie in the CMP "match" category, go ahead. You cannot win that category with an AR in any caliber at Nationals. I have shot 556 AR, 308 AR, and M1a service rifles at 1000. Service rifles at 1000 yards is effectively a dead category except for a scant few larger matches (in which, the numbers are still low). I prefer palma rifles and any-irons (CMP Match).
Not questioning "your" preferences, but pointing out that some statements are not always correct.

The 2018 Rules permit the use of Service Rifles (Rules 4.1.1, 4.1.2, 4.1.4, 4.1.4 and 4.1.6)

The USAMU has had a good reason to use 5.56 Service rifles in 1000 yd. matches.

Also there's the Viale Long Range Match at Perry.

I'm not using a .224 Valkyrie but believe it has potential considering how fast it can push a 90 gr. bullet. And I'm thinking about putting a 6mm CM together.
__________________
NRA Life Member

Last edited by Talyn1; 12-07-2018 at 12:55 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 12-07-2018, 01:44 AM
WindLogik WindLogik is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Washington State
Posts: 2,215
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talyn1 View Post
Not questioning "your" preferences, but pointing out that some statements are not always correct.

The 2018 Rules permit the use of Service Rifles (Rules 4.1.1, 4.1.2, 4.1.4, 4.1.4 and 4.1.6)

The USAMU has had a good reason to use 5.56 Service rifles in 1000 yd. matches.

Also there's the Viale Long Range Match at Perry.

I'm not using a .224 Valkyrie but believe it has potential considering how fast it can push a 90 gr. bullet. And I'm thinking about putting a 6mm CM together.
It's just like the NRA rules, where it came from. Yes, they permit the use of service rifles. The AR 10 and 15 variants are the only ARs you'd want to consider in a long range match, but you'd do it in the service rifle category. The rest of it will always be won with bolt action prone rifles. I have shot SRs long range, and for everywhere but nationals, there is no point in doing it because there is no one else shooting SRs in long range matches. If you are shooting sling, the bulk will be shooting palma or any.

Yes, it is my opinion, of course. Keep in mind, the winingest AMU Service rifles you see at Perry are nearly disposables. This is especially true of 556 with 90 grain bullets. It's not worth fooling with when there are so few SR LR matches and you could shoot a palma rifle or an any rifle. My opinion.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 12-07-2018, 09:23 AM
milprileb milprileb is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Stafford, Virginia
Posts: 2,483
Send a message via AIM to milprileb
Default

Some comments and one answer.

WOA was not forth coming on why gas port had issues on friends rifle and this Sunday that WOA upper might just get back out at 1000 yds here at Quantico. We'll see how things shake out but temps are freezing and owner might wave off for health reasons. Results will happen, but its winter here and winds are up and older shooters take precautions . More when it happens.

The statement was made: There is not a good reason to shoot an AR type rifle at 1000 yards

3 yrs ago, I'd have signed up on that fully and today, I marginally sign up. In windless
days, This past 2 years, I have had some pretty great results with AR's at 800 and 1000 yds and only tried out of curiosity. Winds build, case the dang rifle or try to manage frisbees. I have yet to see group type accuracy from any AR (556, 308, 6.5 Creedmoor) that was anything but pinging big steel
"accuracy" at 1000 yds. The Valkyrie guys shoot 20/20" steel and get hits but 2MOA is accuracy to the eyes of the rifles owner...some don't see that as impressive accuracy. Granted, 20 and 22 inch barrels might be the reason AR's don't hang well at 1000 yds.

Serious AR shooters with 24" barrels (556 or Valkyrie) are in short supply at our 1000 yd line , they may show up and prove something good , ..or not.

I shoot my 20" barrel standard Rock River NM M16A4 with Vortex 5-24x Viper scope at 1000 yds with 80 gr BTHP. I shoot at clay birds (4.5" diameter) and if I line up 3 wide x 3 high , that "box" most often gets broken birds if winds are mild. I have had days when I shot at 1 bird and danced rounds really close to it / sometimes breaking them. I find this all challenging & rewarding so I think if the rifle had a 24" barrel, I could really improve results.

Nevertheless, the rifle is a service rifle platform and doing fine at 1000 yds , it provides
"entertainment" while my 308 and 6.5 Creedmoor bolt rifles barrels are cooling off.

I will admit, everytime I reload 556 with 80 gr BTHP, I look at that anemic case capacity and mutter I am at the end of the line, pushing a noodle up a mountain taking it to 1000 yds but ....what the hell !!!

Last edited by milprileb; 12-07-2018 at 03:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:28 AM.