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Old 05-19-2018, 06:41 PM
GreasyEasy GreasyEasy is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Alabama
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Default Opinions on a gunshow M1 garand...

Firstly, I like to thank the many members and the staff of this wonderful forum as it's a wealth of information, and members seem very knowledgeable and willing to share it.

I just recently got into Carbines, so I've going to every place I can to look at them including gunshows. Over the last month or two Ive also been thinking I should go ahead and get a nice Garand before it might be too late. That said, I now know just how much one needs to do their homework on M1 rifles before buying based on my new found love of the carbines, and I can't really focus on two rifles at once. My plan was to drive to the CMP South or TMP store one day when the gentleman named Tom helps customers out who are green behind the ears.

That said, while browsing the aisles of the show today, a M1 Garand just stood out among hundreds of guns I was walking past including another WWII SA 42 receiver/SA 43 dated barrel M1 Garand with a nice non cartouche marked stock for $1500 which seemed high.

The one that just stood out was incredibly clean, visiable metal finished 90% + Id say, all the parkerizing seemed to match. The only wear I saw that was noticeable was at the front of the barrel was it's exposed. Bolt finish matched the same park'd color of receiver, and the bolt wear spots seemed minimal with wear marks. Bore and chamber looked very clean with my bore light. The stock was in perfect condition, almost no visiable wear that I could find, and seemed like it fit the barreled receiver very nicely, and flush. I'm pretty sure it was a walnut stock. Wood felt great, and the finish was beautiful. It had the cleaning kit buttstock as well.


The little specs I have for now....

Receiver: H&R 5million serial numbered
Bolt: 19SA (which I believe is a WWII era Springfield made bolt)
Barrel: Marked SA 64 (assume this is a Springfield barrel made in 1964)
No marking on the forward exposed section of the barrel/gas cylinder
No stock marking as far as I could see.

I ask the gentlemen the provenance of the rifle, and if he had the barrel's muzzle and chamber measurements. He said it was purchased 15yrs or so ago from the CMP. As for the barrel measurements, he said it will shoot X at 200yds with a proud face, but he didn't have any measurements

I then ask him some more detailed questions on the internals, and their marking...he said you seem to know more about these types of rifles then me. He didn't know what types of parts were inside.

His table was filled, and I wasn't completely comfortable field stripping a Garand there, but I ask him if I come back tomorrow to potentially buy it, can I field strip it to inspect the internals....he said that's fine. Includes 4 emblocs, and what appears to be a newer sling.

I understand the safer play is to go to the CMP store and ask for Tom's help, however all the descriptions from the 3 different grades all sound to have more wear and tear, finish loss, etc. outside of the CMP special.

This rifle looks as clean as the CMP specials sound when I read the descriptions of them. Seems too clean for a current rack, field, or service grade CMP, and I don't have any reference to what the CMP Garands might have looked like or come packaged as 15yrs. Were the M1 Garands from the CMP 15yrs ago generally nicer, or better conditioned?


I understand the specs are vague, but this is just one of those gunshow rifles you see, like, but just aren't quite sure if it's a good buy or not.

In some of your opinions, what would you pay for this rifle, or would you forgo buying it altogether?

Thanks very much in advance!

Last edited by GreasyEasy; 05-19-2018 at 06:49 PM.
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  #2  
Old 05-19-2018, 06:47 PM
Shomway Shomway is online now
 
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What was he asking for it?
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  #3  
Old 05-19-2018, 07:31 PM
GreasyEasy GreasyEasy is offline
 
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Tag was $900. However $800 cash will be my offer.
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Old 05-19-2018, 07:45 PM
Quarterbore Quarterbore is offline
 
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It would be best if you had the gauge to measure ME/TE. If those numbers made it a service grade it is likely a decent deal as long as the receiver isnt a reweld and there are no import stamps. Study hard how to identify a reweld and look carefully.

A CMP service grade is $760 and this is hopefully what you are getting but it’s priced low for gunshows, at least compared to here, so if it didn’t sell I would be worried experienced buyers might know something you missed.

Mind you,I am new at this but to get going I bought several of Duff’s books, gauges, and watched hours of M1 Garand youtube videos. I now have two, and planning a third when I only wanted one originally. If it has good parts, the parts could be worth more than the gun as a whole but a few bad parts and it won’t be a deal at all - like a reweld receiver or shot out barrel.

From what I’ve read, those late Springfield barrels are supposed to be accurate. I have a 65 on my CMP Service grade but I have yet to shoot it as it showed up this week and it has rained everyday.

Last edited by Quarterbore; 05-19-2018 at 09:07 PM.
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  #5  
Old 05-19-2018, 09:02 PM
GreasyEasy GreasyEasy is offline
 
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Thanks for such a detailed reply Quarterbore, just the information I was looking to learn.

I agree about it having a reasonable price on it for a gunshow rifle, and that could hint at the rifle having some flaw that turned the other more experienced buyers away.

That said, this was a very small gunshow sadly, and like most shows these days, was filled with mass produced cheap ARs, and polymer handguns. The attendance was equally as small. The funny thing is that the guy right behind me walking noticed the same rifle as me, and I could tell he was eagerly awaiting me putting it down so he could pick it up. Ultimately we spoke about the rifle and both agreed we didn't know enough to buy it. Nonetheless it was telling how much this particular rifle stuck out among a mass of turds.

Thanks again for the knowledge!
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  #6  
Old 05-19-2018, 09:42 PM
Deuceguy Deuceguy is offline
 
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You can perform inspections without field stripping. ME can be verified with a .30 cal projectile in a pinch. Cycle and pull the trigger. Turn the windage and elevation knobs. Check for play in the gas cylinder.

If you aren’t comfortable field stripping, have the seller do it.

The CMP service grades are not like they used to be. 800 for a Garand at a show with what you described is a good price
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Old 05-19-2018, 10:30 PM
pbshooter1217 pbshooter1217 is offline
 
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The few Garands I've seen at gun shows have all been $1,200 plus. It might be a good deal. I got my Service Grade in about 6 weeks. You at least know the minimum to expect.
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  #8  
Old 05-19-2018, 11:08 PM
GreasyEasy GreasyEasy is offline
 
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Location: Alabama
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Thanks gents for the additional replies.

Dueceguy's specific comment about CMP service grades being different back then is especially pertinent as this rifle according to seller is a CMP rifle, but seems relatively nicer than then the current service grade description on CMP's website.

Need to see if I were to buy the rifle, I could attain another copy from CMP of the letter that certifies it's a CMP rifle. Also wondering if they could then give me any records they had on the rifle like when they sold it, what grade was it according to them, Country where the rifle/receiver was returned from prior to CMP receiving it.

I've been looking into the reweld topic that was suggested to learn about, and that's very disheartening knowing that people go to those lengths to fool a buyer.

This was the first time in a long time that I've seen a gun at a show, or a brick and mortar store that I thought might be that rare excellent deal. The last time was when a local gun store didn't know what they had with a 1/500 color framed HK urban gray USPc 40....they must of thought it was a regular USPc that some fudd had painted the frame on. Normally not lucky though.

Thanks for the great info so far!

Last edited by GreasyEasy; 05-19-2018 at 11:12 PM.
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  #9  
Old 05-20-2018, 06:55 AM
Quarterbore Quarterbore is offline
 
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Yes, you can send the CMP a check for $25 and they will try to determine if your gun was a former DCM or CMP gun. They warn their records are not complete and the fee is wether the find anything or not. I sent a letter and $25 to get my WRA researched.

http://thecmp.org/faq/will-the-cmp-r...he-dcm-or-cmp/
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  #10  
Old 05-20-2018, 09:56 AM
mike735 mike735 is offline
 
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GreasyEasy
I saw this H&R yesterday I almost made an offer of $800 for it, I am absolutely no expect but it seemed to be a decent Garand. I am concerned about my ability to spot a reweld so l have restricted my purchases to CMP or the forum here. One thing l didnít care for was the stock, which was not a GI stock, to me it was over sized, but seem to be a nice quality walnut.
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