Learning the ropes about 5 M1carbines...

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  • evi1joe
    • Apr 2011
    • 11

    Learning the ropes about 5 M1carbines...

    I'm helping out a widowed friend sell her husband's collections of guns, and decided to start with the M1 Carbines. However, it turns out there are a LOT of things I need to know in order to determine value. I know the "Blue Sky, Arlington VA" marked barrel one is evidently an "import" and not worth much (even though it's in perfect condition). He has one paratrooper and one that was crated up and never even fired...but I only grabbed 3 to take pics of for now.

    I was just wondering if there's any way to know if these are all original or mixmasters without taking them apart (I'm scared of breaking down a gun that doesn't belong to me, even though if it was an AK, AR or Glock, I could do it easily).

    I'd hate to sell a $1200 M1 paratrooper for $650, but I'd also hate to sell a $600 M1 for $1000. Just looking for fair prices, but it's so hard to know. I can't even tell if these are the "good" "high stocks" or not--the two with stocks have the same design/angles.

    Here are some pics-->







  • evi1joe
    • Apr 2011
    • 11

    #2
    The barrels are super nice:

    Comment

    • steelap
      • Oct 2009
      • 5760

      #3
      Take your time. Check out gunbroker (actual sold items) for price suggestions. Consider, for the potentially more valuable items, getting an appraisal (M1A1 (paratrooper), "unfired" carbine). An authentic M1A1 can be worth a lot more than $1200, depending on condition. On the other hand, if it is in a reproduction stock, it is likely worth less than $1200.

      Maybe post a set of pictures or a link to a set of pictures for one at a time. Hopefully there is no rush.

      Good luck.

      "Life is Good!"

      Comment

      • dpd3672
        • Sep 2010
        • 4612

        #4
        The M1 Carbine is one of the easiest guns to field strip, you can find good videos on You Tube to take you though it. If you really want to get the most accurate idea of how much the guns are worth (accounting for any rare parts), you'll really have to do this. From the photos, it looks like the guns have later parts, (adjustable sights, later slide, at least one 4 rivet handguard), so they've likely been rebuilt at some point in their lives and are mixmasters.

        Without any additional information, the guns are probably worth $500-700 depending on condition. If you list the manufacturers, some might be worth a couple hundred more (or a couple thousand, if one's an Irwin Pedersen). The paratrooper is worth at least $1000 more if it's real, not much more if it's a reproduction stock.

        The best way to get an idea of value is to take lots of photos of any manufacturer's marks. At the very least, find out who made the receiver, stock and barrel. Better would be to list the manufacturer of the handguard, trigger group, hammer, trigger, sear, and bolt...the right manufacturers can make a huge difference on the final price. A mixmaster Inland with late features and a little wear would be on the low end, an all original Rockola with early features would bring 2-3 times as much.
        Pictures, please; I live vicariously through the purchases of others...

        Comment

        • Blockhead
          • Oct 2009
          • 6924

          #5
          The more info and pics you post here, the better idea you'll get on what those carbines are worth. Good luck!
          My Feedback

          Comment

          • mynameismatt
            • Oct 2009
            • 167

            #6
            the M1A1 stock looks similar to one I owned. You can see a cutout for the m2 selector (real M1A1s didn't have this), and the rivets on the stock don't look quite right IMO. Hope this helps!

            Comment

            • Tired Retired
              • Oct 2009
              • 1503

              #7
              EJ,

              You are correct to do research for the widow.

              From what I see, of the pictures above, the M1A1 stock is a reproduction. Also the stock is an "M2 potbelly" which appears to be an Israeli return (the stamped serial on the stock).

              As stated above, carbines are very easy to break down into their basic groups. I would encourage you to download and fill out the "data sheet" used by the Carbine Club. (No, I am not a member.) They allow the use of the sheet and it is the standard by which carbines parts are identified and recorded. Having the sheets filled out will make appraising value and selling the carbines easier.

              http://www.carbineclub.com/DataSheetrev31-1-11.pdf

              I am curious about the carbine which is crated up. Remember the group here loves pictures, even of "regular" carbines, so please feel free to post and share.

              Hope that helps...
              Last edited by Tired Retired; 04-11-2011, 11:06 AM. Reason: add link

              Comment

              • tenOC
                Banned
                • Jun 2010
                • 3971

                #8
                I'm interested and currently looking to buy 4 certain rifles.

                If you wanted someone in your area to look at them to tell you what she's got, I'm sure someone that views here is near you. Take care to protect yourself in that this deal isn't for someone to snatch a good deal from her at the expense of a dead spouse by underselling you on what they are. I'm not saying this is common here, but I've seen one of two people in another community of collectibles vulture on widows in the past.

                I agree the the folder stock looks reproduction--it's not Parkerized and the rivets are not period. It's fresh looking too. I'm selling one for $170 shipped (stock alone).

                Comment

                • toadranch1
                  • Jan 2011
                  • 866

                  #9
                  One more comment:
                  That Inland carbine has a very low serial number. But I can see something (else?) stamped on the receiver in front of the rear sight. Is that just a repeat of the serial number?

                  That stock is definitely a 'return', based on the engraved number on the left side of the butt stock. Depending on the unseen condition (as in metal damage, pitting below the wood line, aftermarket parts, etc.), I'd say the appraisal of $500-700 is close. I recently bought an aftermarket paratrooper stock, like the one pictured, for $120. They retail for $180 +/-.

                  Comment

                  • 22mike
                    Banned
                    • Jan 2010
                    • 1853

                    #10
                    I see nothing special in your photos.

                    Comment

                    • Mississippi Kid
                      • Oct 2009
                      • 873

                      #11
                      You'd probably do great if you posted them on the traders pages here.Lots of C&R guys here would be glad to buy them,it's free to post and no fees except shipping.

                      Start with taking about a dozen good photos of each one .Areas to display in your pics include the the rear of the receiver with the maker and serial number,markings on the top of the barrel and the front sight,muzzle and barrel crown,right side of the rear sight,left side of the stock sling well with the markings if any showing and when you learn to field strip the carbines show the bolt lug markings,trigger housing,slide markings.Also good top ,bottom and side views.It's a little work but when you have nice looking carbines like those the more you show the better it will sell.

                      Remember the object is to help the widow with as much proceeds as the product will bring .Don't be afraid to start with the high end of the price range and work your way down if nobody bites.

                      What manufacturer is the para stocked carbine ?If it's not original I'd put it in a regular stock and sell the para stock seperately.

                      Looking at the Inland,the WW II C clip sling looks nice and is worth extra $$$ if original.Nothing says it has to go with the carbine,sell it seperately. Oilers ,magazines,ammunition,extra parts too.Some are worth more than others but all are accessories,seperate them to increase proceeds.

                      If it's the import you mentioned,even so it still looks nice.The more correct parts,the better the value.If the barrel has a good bore and muzzle and it has a lot of correct parts on it I'd start around $650.00 ,more if any rare collectable parts show up( Rock-Ola,Winchester,S'G',Irwin Pedersen). If it has a bunch of average mixed manufacturer parts then $500.00 firm.That import mark on the barrel kills collector value otherwise if it had no etched serial number or marks it would be a $800.00 + rifle , but it would make a great looking shooter .

                      Good luck and thanks for helping .

                      Comment

                      • evi1joe
                        • Apr 2011
                        • 11

                        #12
                        Yep. It's just a copy of the serial number....and there's a copy of it stamped on the stock. I'm slowly gathering the nerve to break down a gun that doesn't belong to me--it would seem that there's no real danger of springs or parts going shooting across the room.

                        Thanks so much for the Data Sheet--that will be helpful.

                        This is a much bigger job than I had imagined. There are like 20 rifles (from M14s to Garands to Swiss Mausers to a Springfield 1875 or something like that), 20 pistols (from a Thunder Range Colt Police Model A to a Nickel Colt Python to a bunch of old break open guns) and even a ton of swords from the civil war and stuff. Buckets of civil war bullets, arrowheads, artifacts, a 40-50 volume set on the Civil War, etc. She insists on paying me, and I was going to charge her 5% commission (the ATF said it was okay), but now I'm wondering if 7.5-10 isn't more fair...what with all the research I'm doing.

                        I'm in JAX, FL, so if anyone in the area wanted to meet up and look at 5 carbines, I could pick up the other two. I'm trying to convince the widow's daughter (my college friend) to let her husband have the paratrooper, since he wants one...but she's anti-gun. He and I are trying to spin it as a memento, but I don't know if the keepsake argument will work (especially now that they have a new baby boy in the house and she's in protective lioness mode).

                        Comment

                        • tenOC
                          Banned
                          • Jun 2010
                          • 3971

                          #13
                          Isn't Jaxville the largest city by land mass in the USA?

                          Maybe you're beyond this point...
                          Start slow on the tear down if you want to get your feet wet.
                          Remove the magazine. Unclip any sling at the front barrel band. Loosen that barrel band screw on the right side and just leave it loose--it's not supposed to come off. Take a writing pen (or similar non marring plastic piece) and push down on the barrel band spring head while slipping the barrel band/bayonet lug forward. The handguard will fall off and the entire rifle will fall out of the stock, so be ready and hold it over something soft. From there you can see the trigger housing markings, hammer markings, maybe the sear too. That'll give you a start.

                          ETA: When the stock is removed, sometimes the trigger housing pin will fall loose when you turn the rifle side to side. Lose it and you'll have to find a replacement before the housing will stay in place again.

                          Remember that early features are more desirable on these--and they're harder to find. Most of what I see is late stuff.
                          2nd pic down, both have later round bolts, one has a later 4 rivet handguard, both rear sites are late--one stamped one milled. The slide on the paratrooper one is late--type V or VI. Looks like both have flip safeties (late). The mag catches look like they have the M2 lug extension (late). The serial number etching is not a benefit either. The stock being etched is not good either. Make someone a deal on all 5 for one price if the others are like these.
                          Last edited by tenOC; 04-11-2011, 08:10 PM.

                          Comment

                          • Sport45
                            • Jun 2010
                            • 198

                            #14
                            Originally posted by evi1joe
                            There are like 20 rifles (from M14s ....
                            I hope that's a M1A. If it's a M14 there will be a ton of hoops to jump through if it was registered or possibly some dancing around to avoid a trip to club fed if it wasn't.

                            DO NOT take a M14 into your possession for any reason without the proper tax stamp or you will be taking a huge risk yourself.

                            Comment

                            • dpd3672
                              • Sep 2010
                              • 4612

                              #15
                              If you're going to try doing a Data Sheet, I did a little walkthrough for beginners here.

                              As far as taking the gun apart, it's pretty easy. There's a good walkthrough here with lots of photos. It has links to disassembling the trigger group (pretty easy) and the bolt (a bit trickier) as well. If you get stuck on any part, try You Tube, there's lots of videos showing how to strip and reassemble the gun.
                              Pictures, please; I live vicariously through the purchases of others...

                              Comment

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