* No flaming or insulting of other members. You will get one warning via a private message. Repeat offenses will result in being banned. (We are quite serious about this folks).
* Vendor bashing will not be tolerated. You will get one warning via a private message. Repeat offenses will result in being banned.
* When posting, try to use descriptive titles for your threads to enhance the searchability of the site. Thread titles such as "Help Me" or "Dang this sucks" should NOT be used. Instead try titles like 'Need Help with Sights', 'How to Perform Stock Refinish', or 'Vibration in Handguard". This will help other people search the site with better accuracy and make it easier for people to help you out.
* Everyone has a personal opinion and they will often differ from others. If you get into an argument over something, debate the issue, not the member. If you feel the need to get into a heated discussion with someone, send them a private message. Personal debates on the forum will not be tolerated.
* Do NOT post copyrighted material on this Forum without consent of the author. This could be from another website, or a book that you personally own. The owner/Admins of this site will not be held liable for any copyright infringement of this type, and as such, will prevent (to the best of our ability) it's posting in public. This is for the protection of ALL members.
* Do NOT post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-orientated, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violate any laws. These types of messages will not be tolerated. You will get one warning via a private message. Serious offenses may result in immediate permanent suspension. Repeat offenses will result in being permanently suspended.
* Avoid thread hi-jacking. Moderators will be looking for this and will more than likely split the topic if it gets too drastic, as well as take appropriate action where deemed necessary, to include deleting posts and/or enforcement action.
Please do not post the same question or post across multiple forums, or in the same thread. The best way to get the answers you are searching for is to post a clear single question in the appropriate forum and be patient, Replies will come. If you are in a hurry for a particular answer try using the search button or reading through replies to similar questions. It may just contain the information that you need. No need to post the same information again and again as this just clogs up threads/sub-forums.
Do not bump non-Marketplace threads as that can clutter the front page of a discussion forum. Posts bumping discussion threads will be deleted.
* Any members advertising their wares on the site without expressed permission will get banned. Personal items for sale in the classifieds are ok as long as the meet the criteria laid out in the site rules.
* Do not post any info, posts or threads regarding the process of going to the estore and artificially placing a large number of items in your cart simply for the purpose of seeing what inventory remains of an item carried on the estore!
This activity slows down the estore and can cause problems with it crashing, errors with people's orders, and inventory errors, particularly during periods of high demand/traffic.
Anyone making such posts on the forum will be warned once, then have their forum privileges suspended at least temporarily for a second violation. Further violations can result in permanent suspension.
* There will be no posting of links to, or copying information from listings on outside auctions/commercial sites, i.e. -- Gunbroker, Ebay, Armslist, Craigslist, Reddit, gun trader sites, etc, that are still active/live. We will not provide a platform for members to promote said auctions as there is no viable way to determine whether they or someone they know has a stake in the auction. Posts with this information will be removed. Continual violations will result in suspension of forum privileges. You may link to closed/completed auctions in the sake of education and learning.
* Users who post fake information, i.e. - name, location, in their profile, or otherwise provide/post false information/data about themselves will be instantly banned. Users who register multiple usernames will also be removed.
* Your account may be revoked at any time for any reason.
Generally, the following enforcement policy will apply:
1st offense - warning
2nd offense - banned for one week to six month
3rd offense - banned for one year
4th offense - banned permanently
** Depending on the nature of the offense/rule violation, first offense can result in ANY of the above enforcement actions.
ADDITIONAL RULES, TO INCLUDE MARKETPLACE/CLASSIFIED AD RULES:
1. Profile Requirements
To start a sale, buy or trade thread anywhere in the Marketplace, your Profile must contain:
A. Your FIRST and LAST name as well as your STATE of residence. Your profile privacy settings must be set to at least allow registered users the ability to view your profile info, i.e. - Not set to "Friends only."
B. You must "enable receive email and PM’s" in your Control panel if you intend to buy or sell.
Additionally, you must have a valid email address listed in your registration profile (which can only be viewed by moderators/admin in the vBulletin master page).
Users with obvious fake names, or using false names in their profile will be permanently removed from the forum without warning. PLEASE NOTE: When a member has failed to put their full names and location in their profile, their ads will be deleted WITHOUT NOTICE. You are responsible enough to be involved in firearm activity, so you can be responsible enough to read and understand the forum rules. The posted rules ARE your notice as they are posted throughout the forum. Threads/ads will be restored once a member has updated their profile with first and last name, and state.
2. The Marketplace is intended SOLELY for the mutual benefit of forum members as a resource to support each other's collecting and/or shooting goals.
It is NOT intended for, and will NOT be used by members as a repeated, for-profit venture/operation. This includes:
A. Purchasing items from members on the forum, then posting them for sale at a markup/profit on other commercial sites, i.e. – eBay, Gunbroker, etc.
B. Reselling items at a considerable markup that were recently purchased from CMP.
Members found to have clearly abused this policy will lose the ability to post in and use the Marketplace, and potentially have their forum privileges suspended, temporarily or permanently.
3. You may only list personally owned items, and/or request/WTB items for yourself. “Selling (or buying) this for a friend/family member” ads, and 3rd-party sales/purchases are prohibited.
Additionally, NO posting or linking to listings on eBay, Craigslist, Gunbroker, Reddit, or other outside auction/commercial sites. We will not have the items placed here also. List your product here, try to sell it here, then take it to eBay, Craigslist, Gunbroker, auction-arms, etc.
4. There will be no “auction style” selling here…If you post an item for sale and it says anything like "I will take the highest offer" it will be removed.
We ask that you list your item on just one forum, so there is not confusion and/or issues with an item being sold on another forum when someone attempts to purchase it here. If you do list and sell on another forum, it is your responsibility to immediately update your ad on our forum…if you do not, your privilege to post in the Marketplace and even the forum itself may be suspended, at least temporarily.
NOTE REGARDING 1911 PISTOLS PURCHASED FROM CMP: If you are considering selling a 1911/1911A1 you acquired directly from CMP, you MUST obtain approval from CMP1911ADMIN before listing it on the forum as purchasers of these weapons are not allowed to resell them as a condition of the purchase. You may reach him via PM or email: [email protected]
5. Vendors (or people selling large quantities of the same item as part of a commercial venture) must first contact a moderator or admin.
6. Omission of information is also known as fraud. It is wholly the responsibility of the person listing an item to describe it ACCURATELY and TRUTHFULLY.
Example: If you are selling a rifle stock that has a 9 inch crack in it you need to disclose that information to the buyer. Do not describe the item or tell the buyer that the stock has "light scratches" only.
If we determine that you defraud a member by failing to disclose facts about your items, your access to this section will be restricted and you may be permanently banned from the forum.
7. CLASSIFIED AD REQUIREMENTS
A. Briefly describe your item in the title, along with WTS, WTT or WTB.
B. We do not have any rules regarding notification of a purchase or trade in an ad...it can be accomplished via a post on the thread, a PM, an email, a phone call, a pigeon carrier, etc. However, if you set the terms of your sale, you must follow them! We do not require or enforce any conditions of purchase; however, if a member violates their own terms then they are subject to at least suspension from the Marketplace section. For example: If you say, "First 'I'll take it' gets it," and sell to someone via PM or email without updating your ad and someone posts they'll take it, that's on you. We will not be party to a dispute, but you WILL lose your privilege to post in the Marketplace as a minimum since you failed to follow your own conditions.
C. You must list a price, and make it easily visible, not just lost in the description. Ads without a price will be deleted. It is ok to list a price and OBO (or best offer); however, no auction-style listings
D. As noted in item #4, provide ALL and ACCURATE details. i.e color, size, caliber, year, make, model, condition, defects, etc
E. Post pictures, or at least the links to them. If you are unable to post pics, then make them available via e-mail.
F. List shipping, pick-up or delivery options for the buyer, as well as cost.
G. Be sure to mark your ad as "SOLD" once the items are sold.
8. Do not bump ads older than 90 days without moderator approval. Ads older than 90 days will be locked if they get bumped.
9. Do not bump an ad more than once within a 24-hour period. Ads bumped multiple times within 24 hours will be locked or deleted. Members who continually do this will have their ads locked or deleted, and will lose your privilege to post in the Marketplace.
10. Remove previous bump posts so as to keep the size of the threads to a minimum. Nobody wants to have to search through 4+ pages of "Bump" or "ttt" posts simply to find information on the item listed.
If not removed, mods will remove them and/or delete the thread if it gets out of hand.
11. If you commit to buy or sell, please contact the seller or buyer within 24 hours with a PM or email to make arrangements.
12. If an item is sold, please mark the thread as such. This will help eliminate the old threads coming back up, as well as help those looking for specific items.
13. For WTB items anywhere in the Marketplace:
- Only respond to a WTB ad if you possess the requested item or have specific knowledge of that item’s availability. For example, do not post, “Check eBay” or “Check Gunbroker.”
- Once you have found/purchased the item(s) desired, delete the thread so as to not waste other members' time and allow for other threads to have visibility.
14. Keep the classified threads clean of extraneous/fluff comments and questions, regardless of how innocent or praiseworthy. This prevents derailing the thread and generating wasteful, opinionated discussions, as well as surreptitious bumping of threads.
If you have a technical or knowledge question relating to a listed item, start a new thread or search and add to an existing thread.
If you want to thank or praise a seller or item, DON'T do it in the sale thread as it unnecessarily bumps a stale thread, and said comments will be deleted. Instead, do the person the courtesy of posting in the Buyer/Seller Feedback section here: http://forums.thecmp.org/forumdisplay.php?f=81
Basically, if you don't have a question DIRECTLY related to a sale/trade/purchase of a specific thread, don't post! And this particularly applies to stomping a member’s ad concerning their asking price as there is a tendency to post negative replies when someone lists an item for sale that others consider overpriced.
We will not tolerate members stomping another member's ad concerning their asking price.
This also includes posting low-ball offers. If you want to make an offer lower than the asking price, even if it states OBO, do it via PM or email.
If an item is sold and the listing member deleted the price (which is their prerogative) and you want to know what the price was, do NOT post in the thread…send the member a PM.
Those who continually stomp or hijack other member's ads will face temporary, and even permanent suspension of their forum privileges.
15. No duplicate or multiple threads in different sections for the same item. Pick one section, the most applicable, and post there. Additional duplicate threads will be deleted.
16. You may not use the signature block function to solicit purchases, trades and/or sales. That is why we have the Marketplace...post a thread with your specific WTB, WTS, WTT ad.
You may have up to two lines stating you are looking or searching for a particular rifle/weapon and serial number.
As with individual posts, signature blocks/lines are subject to the same forum rules and will be handled accordingly if they violate any forum rules, policies/procedures or take up too much room of a post.
OTHER TIPS/GUIDELINES
- Buyers and Sellers should verify each other’s identity before sending money and/or products. If possible, get each other’s phone number and have a quick conversation to confirm the transaction details.
- As a suggestion: sellers should consider using delivery confirmation to avoid conflicts from buyers; saying they never received the products.
- Buyers, get to know the seller a little before you blindly send cash. If something does not seem right; it probably isn't. If something seems too good to be true; it probably is. Contact a moderator or report a thread/post that appears to be a scam.
- Respect fellow members. This section is a great place to support/help out fellow members and occasionally make new friends. Please be respectful to your fellow members. Maybe try selling here to a member instead of eBay, maybe save them a buck or two. If you have any questions, problems or concerns feel free to contact a moderator or admin.
- We do not require members to keep ads, or keep a listing price in the thread. It is your ad, so you are free to delete it at your discretion, as well as remove the asking price if you so desire. If someone is curious about the price for what an item sold, contact the seller via PM…do NOT post in thread.
- Lastly, don't forget the <b>Buyer/Seller Feedback section</b> http://forums.thecmp.org/forumdisplay.php?f=81
Be sure to express a good or bad experience with your buyer or seller, and let others know what to expect. Also be sure to check there for a member if you are concerned BEFORE you buy.
MODERATION RULES/ENFORCEMENT
1. All spammers get banned instantly and permanently.
2. Inappropriate or out of hand threads shall be closed with or without reason posted for the closure or deleted at the discretion of the Mods/Admins.
3. If you cannot follow the rules set forth, your posts may be deleted, removed, or edited by the Moderators.
4. If you repeatedly do not follow the rules set forth, you will be banned from this section or from the CMP Forum for any length of time from 2 days to permanently, at the discretion of the Moderators.
NOTE: These rules can change at any time. Administrators and Moderators have the right to make any decision that fits the website and its users.
DISCLAIMER
The CMP, any of its staff and forum administrators/moderators assume NO liability or responsibility for Marketplace transactions. Members will use at their own risk, and CMP will not be responsible for any disputes or claims between members involving a transaction.
The Civilian Marksmanship Program forum is intended primarily to be a technically-oriented website for professional, courteous, and intellectual discussion of CMP matches, activities, firearms and related events. We are an online community founded by enthusiasts, for enthusiasts, of all ages and walks of life. Remember that we have youth CMP participants who view this site. Please enjoy your stay and with your help, we can make the CMP Forums safe for all.
The opinions and posts on this site do not necessarily reflect those of The Civilian Marksmanship Program.
If you have any questions, please contact a Moderator
I'm helping out a widowed friend sell her husband's collections of guns, and decided to start with the M1 Carbines. However, it turns out there are a LOT of things I need to know in order to determine value. I know the "Blue Sky, Arlington VA" marked barrel one is evidently an "import" and not worth much (even though it's in perfect condition). He has one paratrooper and one that was crated up and never even fired...but I only grabbed 3 to take pics of for now.
I was just wondering if there's any way to know if these are all original or mixmasters without taking them apart (I'm scared of breaking down a gun that doesn't belong to me, even though if it was an AK, AR or Glock, I could do it easily).
I'd hate to sell a $1200 M1 paratrooper for $650, but I'd also hate to sell a $600 M1 for $1000. Just looking for fair prices, but it's so hard to know. I can't even tell if these are the "good" "high stocks" or not--the two with stocks have the same design/angles.
Take your time. Check out gunbroker (actual sold items) for price suggestions. Consider, for the potentially more valuable items, getting an appraisal (M1A1 (paratrooper), "unfired" carbine). An authentic M1A1 can be worth a lot more than $1200, depending on condition. On the other hand, if it is in a reproduction stock, it is likely worth less than $1200.
Maybe post a set of pictures or a link to a set of pictures for one at a time. Hopefully there is no rush.
The M1 Carbine is one of the easiest guns to field strip, you can find good videos on You Tube to take you though it. If you really want to get the most accurate idea of how much the guns are worth (accounting for any rare parts), you'll really have to do this. From the photos, it looks like the guns have later parts, (adjustable sights, later slide, at least one 4 rivet handguard), so they've likely been rebuilt at some point in their lives and are mixmasters.
Without any additional information, the guns are probably worth $500-700 depending on condition. If you list the manufacturers, some might be worth a couple hundred more (or a couple thousand, if one's an Irwin Pedersen). The paratrooper is worth at least $1000 more if it's real, not much more if it's a reproduction stock.
The best way to get an idea of value is to take lots of photos of any manufacturer's marks. At the very least, find out who made the receiver, stock and barrel. Better would be to list the manufacturer of the handguard, trigger group, hammer, trigger, sear, and bolt...the right manufacturers can make a huge difference on the final price. A mixmaster Inland with late features and a little wear would be on the low end, an all original Rockola with early features would bring 2-3 times as much.
Pictures, please; I live vicariously through the purchases of others...
the M1A1 stock looks similar to one I owned. You can see a cutout for the m2 selector (real M1A1s didn't have this), and the rivets on the stock don't look quite right IMO. Hope this helps!
From what I see, of the pictures above, the M1A1 stock is a reproduction. Also the stock is an "M2 potbelly" which appears to be an Israeli return (the stamped serial on the stock).
As stated above, carbines are very easy to break down into their basic groups. I would encourage you to download and fill out the "data sheet" used by the Carbine Club. (No, I am not a member.) They allow the use of the sheet and it is the standard by which carbines parts are identified and recorded. Having the sheets filled out will make appraising value and selling the carbines easier.
I am curious about the carbine which is crated up. Remember the group here loves pictures, even of "regular" carbines, so please feel free to post and share.
Hope that helps...
Last edited by Tired Retired; 04-11-2011, 11:06 AM.
Reason: add link
I'm interested and currently looking to buy 4 certain rifles.
If you wanted someone in your area to look at them to tell you what she's got, I'm sure someone that views here is near you. Take care to protect yourself in that this deal isn't for someone to snatch a good deal from her at the expense of a dead spouse by underselling you on what they are. I'm not saying this is common here, but I've seen one of two people in another community of collectibles vulture on widows in the past.
I agree the the folder stock looks reproduction--it's not Parkerized and the rivets are not period. It's fresh looking too. I'm selling one for $170 shipped (stock alone).
One more comment:
That Inland carbine has a very low serial number. But I can see something (else?) stamped on the receiver in front of the rear sight. Is that just a repeat of the serial number?
That stock is definitely a 'return', based on the engraved number on the left side of the butt stock. Depending on the unseen condition (as in metal damage, pitting below the wood line, aftermarket parts, etc.), I'd say the appraisal of $500-700 is close. I recently bought an aftermarket paratrooper stock, like the one pictured, for $120. They retail for $180 +/-.
You'd probably do great if you posted them on the traders pages here.Lots of C&R guys here would be glad to buy them,it's free to post and no fees except shipping.
Start with taking about a dozen good photos of each one .Areas to display in your pics include the the rear of the receiver with the maker and serial number,markings on the top of the barrel and the front sight,muzzle and barrel crown,right side of the rear sight,left side of the stock sling well with the markings if any showing and when you learn to field strip the carbines show the bolt lug markings,trigger housing,slide markings.Also good top ,bottom and side views.It's a little work but when you have nice looking carbines like those the more you show the better it will sell.
Remember the object is to help the widow with as much proceeds as the product will bring .Don't be afraid to start with the high end of the price range and work your way down if nobody bites.
What manufacturer is the para stocked carbine ?If it's not original I'd put it in a regular stock and sell the para stock seperately.
Looking at the Inland,the WW II C clip sling looks nice and is worth extra $$$ if original.Nothing says it has to go with the carbine,sell it seperately. Oilers ,magazines,ammunition,extra parts too.Some are worth more than others but all are accessories,seperate them to increase proceeds.
If it's the import you mentioned,even so it still looks nice.The more correct parts,the better the value.If the barrel has a good bore and muzzle and it has a lot of correct parts on it I'd start around $650.00 ,more if any rare collectable parts show up( Rock-Ola,Winchester,S'G',Irwin Pedersen). If it has a bunch of average mixed manufacturer parts then $500.00 firm.That import mark on the barrel kills collector value otherwise if it had no etched serial number or marks it would be a $800.00 + rifle , but it would make a great looking shooter .
Yep. It's just a copy of the serial number....and there's a copy of it stamped on the stock. I'm slowly gathering the nerve to break down a gun that doesn't belong to me--it would seem that there's no real danger of springs or parts going shooting across the room.
Thanks so much for the Data Sheet--that will be helpful.
This is a much bigger job than I had imagined. There are like 20 rifles (from M14s to Garands to Swiss Mausers to a Springfield 1875 or something like that), 20 pistols (from a Thunder Range Colt Police Model A to a Nickel Colt Python to a bunch of old break open guns) and even a ton of swords from the civil war and stuff. Buckets of civil war bullets, arrowheads, artifacts, a 40-50 volume set on the Civil War, etc. She insists on paying me, and I was going to charge her 5% commission (the ATF said it was okay), but now I'm wondering if 7.5-10 isn't more fair...what with all the research I'm doing.
I'm in JAX, FL, so if anyone in the area wanted to meet up and look at 5 carbines, I could pick up the other two. I'm trying to convince the widow's daughter (my college friend) to let her husband have the paratrooper, since he wants one...but she's anti-gun. He and I are trying to spin it as a memento, but I don't know if the keepsake argument will work (especially now that they have a new baby boy in the house and she's in protective lioness mode).
Isn't Jaxville the largest city by land mass in the USA?
Maybe you're beyond this point...
Start slow on the tear down if you want to get your feet wet.
Remove the magazine. Unclip any sling at the front barrel band. Loosen that barrel band screw on the right side and just leave it loose--it's not supposed to come off. Take a writing pen (or similar non marring plastic piece) and push down on the barrel band spring head while slipping the barrel band/bayonet lug forward. The handguard will fall off and the entire rifle will fall out of the stock, so be ready and hold it over something soft. From there you can see the trigger housing markings, hammer markings, maybe the sear too. That'll give you a start.
ETA: When the stock is removed, sometimes the trigger housing pin will fall loose when you turn the rifle side to side. Lose it and you'll have to find a replacement before the housing will stay in place again.
Remember that early features are more desirable on these--and they're harder to find. Most of what I see is late stuff.
2nd pic down, both have later round bolts, one has a later 4 rivet handguard, both rear sites are late--one stamped one milled. The slide on the paratrooper one is late--type V or VI. Looks like both have flip safeties (late). The mag catches look like they have the M2 lug extension (late). The serial number etching is not a benefit either. The stock being etched is not good either. Make someone a deal on all 5 for one price if the others are like these.
I hope that's a M1A. If it's a M14 there will be a ton of hoops to jump through if it was registered or possibly some dancing around to avoid a trip to club fed if it wasn't.
DO NOT take a M14 into your possession for any reason without the proper tax stamp or you will be taking a huge risk yourself.
If you're going to try doing a Data Sheet, I did a little walkthrough for beginners here.
As far as taking the gun apart, it's pretty easy. There's a good walkthrough here with lots of photos. It has links to disassembling the trigger group (pretty easy) and the bolt (a bit trickier) as well. If you get stuck on any part, try You Tube, there's lots of videos showing how to strip and reassemble the gun.
Pictures, please; I live vicariously through the purchases of others...
Comment