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View Poll Results: Are Non-Lead Pellets Suitable for Marksmanship?
Yes 3 21.43%
No 11 78.57%
Voters: 14. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 07-22-2010, 09:09 AM
GhostInTheMachine GhostInTheMachine is offline
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Default Are Non Lead Pellets Suitable For Marksmanship?

For those of you who are curious. The CMP has done some shot-group testing on the Non-Lead pellets. As you can see from the picture, the 10 shot groups vary significantly.



All shot groups are from a benched Anschutz Precision class rifle.


-GitM
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  #2  
Old 07-30-2010, 08:44 PM
Particle Beamer Particle Beamer is offline
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 127
Default The Dynamic is interesting!

The Dynamic pellet SHAPE and grouping is interesting.
I seems that the cylindrical shape may promote
stability and accuracy during flight. Perhaps the
lighter weight of an alloy pellet could benefit
with an elongated dart like projectile. Where
are the Dynamics made, and can they be imported
by Pyramid Air or the CMP? I also like the newer
air-soft ammo that is heavier and biodegradable.
Perhaps a new type of pellet that uses a green
environmentally friendly pellet would promote
a resurgence in target shooting in the schools
and colleges? It seems that air-soft is very
popular among the younger generation.
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  #3  
Old 08-04-2010, 04:29 PM
jhmartin jhmartin is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 21
Default

None of the groups shown (except for control group #1) are suitable for competition.

While these groups are fired out of an olympic style "Precision" air rifle, Sporter guns are just as accurate.

A competition pellet should be able to shoot 5 shot groups into the same hole, with the hole able to support a pellet w/o it dropping thru.

Remember the 10 "ring" on a 10m air rifle target is only 0.5mm.
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  #4  
Old 08-10-2010, 08:25 AM
samson8r samson8r is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DC Area
Posts: 4
Default Asking for aggravation

I agree with the last post. None of the "greener" pellets are accepatable. Kids learning to shoot and aspiring to higher levels will be frustrated by the pellet variable. As a coach for 20+ years, I have to counsel kids time and again that it is them, not the gun or the ammo. Now I might have to tell them it is the ammo? No thanks, give me lead until you find something that shoots just as well.
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  #5  
Old 08-18-2010, 08:35 AM
cjon600 cjon600 is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Georgia
Posts: 74
Default

My sporter gun, a Daisy 853 is extremely accurate. I have put many shots through the same hole with it. I could see a junior shooter getting super frustrated with not being able to shoot above an 70 and the ammo is to blame. Sad to hear schools are getting rid of shooting because of "lead" contamination.
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  #6  
Old 08-18-2010, 06:10 PM
Particle Beamer Particle Beamer is offline
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 127
Default Go Green

Green ammo is the future, and it will begin with the air gun
and ultimately progress to many public and non military ranges.
Even C02 gas may become a thing of the past. I don't think a
first time or part time target shooter cares about shooting
their first hole. These green, alternate ammo choices need to be
promoted and explored. Lead contamination is a serious issue,
that can be overcome with the exploration of green ammunition.
I'm glad the CMP is aware of the trends.
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  #7  
Old 08-19-2010, 05:57 PM
jhmartin jhmartin is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 21
Default

Until "green ammo" can shoot one hole groups it is an absolute non-starter and while it may be the "future" so too is the death of our sun.

With Air & CO2 multiple studies have shown that the only issue is at the collection point. Pellets are pushed by "cold" gas and thus there is no vaporization at the muzzle and are traveling slow enough (<600fps in target rifles) that there is no microfragmentation at the trap. Careful handling at cleanup time is all that is required. You can research these articles at the USAS & CMP websites.

There were reports of "lead contamination" in some schools but it was found that is was from the kids walking in the spent or spilled pellets, getting them stuck in their shoes, and tracking that thru the hallways.

The key to training is honest feedback ... only the control group #1 provides that.
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  #8  
Old 02-19-2011, 05:33 PM
BG Rifle Team BG Rifle Team is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 3
Default

There are a couple new non-lead pellets out that deserve to be tested:
(I am not affiliated with either of these manufacturers or those that distribute them)

H&N Barracuda Green
Predator GTO

I coach one of the high school teams that was banned from shooting lead pellets. We spent the entire summer testing pellets with the same result as the above CMP test. When we acquired the H&N and the Predator, we were very pleased with how they performed.

Here are the abbreviated results:

Both pellets group as well as lead. The H&N has a round nose, which causes issues at scoring time either by human or VIS. We have found the Predator GTO to be preferred due to the wadcutter design and performance (it slightly outperforms the H&N over time- more of a pellet consistency issue than a design issue).

Our precision team shoots high 90's in prone (just like you lead shooters do). We are going to the National Championships in Anniston next week, so you can check the scores and groups yourselves.

Due to the lighter weight (H&N= 5.3grains, GTO=5.5grains) the velocity increases. Of course this depends on what the rifle is adjusted to/designed to shoot. Our Anschutz 8001's, and 8002's sent it flying at 700fps until we adjusted them down to 590fps so that we were in compliance with CMP Rules. There was no adverse affect to the accuracy.

And just to clarify.........
Shooting lead pellets was banned in our school district due to the new Federal Lead Laws that do not allow lead contaminates in public areas (we shoot at the high school gym) where children congregate.

It has absolutely NOTHING to do with cleanliness. It is just the mere existence of lead.

The local county health department used the EPA Rule 40 CFR Part 745 to put the school district on notice that it was in violation of federal law by having any lead in the gym.
http://www.epa.gov/fedrgstr/EPA-TOX/...Day-05/t84.pdf

You can choose to fight it, ignore it, or deal with it.

We had to deal with it, or lose our team. Which wasn't an option. The difference this program makes for some of these kids is unmeasurable. The satisfaction I receive from coaching a successful shooter exceeds a Powerball Win (well, almost).

Good hunting,

Ed Johnson
Coach, Battle Ground H.S. AFJROTC Air Rifle Team
USA Shooting Coach, Level 1
Former USMC MOS 8531 Marksmanship Instructor

Last edited by BG Rifle Team; 02-19-2011 at 08:01 PM.
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