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  #1  
Old 08-28-2012, 08:29 PM
ChrsGuit ChrsGuit is offline
 
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Default Carbine Stock Identification trouble

I'm really needing some help with figuring out the origin of my M1 stock. The carbine I just purchased has an Underwood barrel dated 11-43, as well as a 2.64 million serial number Underwood reciever. I know there is no such thing as an "Original condition" Carbine or Garand, but from what I gather, mine stands a good chance of being somewhat complete... THAT BEING SAID, I'm faced with a dilemma. The stock on my carbine is a very light grayish, almost birch looking color. It has no real markings to speak of, except a P on the underside of the pistol grip. There is no circle around it, and the marking has either been scratched up severly, or may have been hastily done. The only other indicators on it are a P-J inside of the sling channel, and a number 39. Now, I'm under the impression from sites I've looked at, that the stocks with P-U are made by Underwood... which would be correct considering the gun being so complete. PJ was a stock marking that was simply listed as "replacement" on the guides I looked through. This stock has a distinct - between the P and J, and the J looks sharply pressed... not like a mis-stamp. There is a small cartouche/stamp that looks like a rectangle with a circle in the middle on the charging handle side of the comb, and somewhere along the line, the carbine's serial number has been stamped on the left side of the comb. I removed the handguard, and it is stamped OI and has 4 rivets/holes (which I understand was a 1944 Inland mfg). The handguard is noticebly darker than the stock.

SOOO, my reason behind all of this. Since the color on this stock is not the Walnut that I love so dearly, I wanted to validate it's origin before I did any kind of finish changes. I don't plan to EVER sell this rifle, since it was a gift from my girlfriend... BUT I still don't want to blatantly mess with the historical aspects. If this is an original equipment stock, I would be foolish to mess with it. I have done some refinishing work before, so I'm not afraid of the challenge. Posted here is a link to my photo album of all the identification I could find on the Carbine. Also pictured Are my M1 Garand, and the 1924 Model 12 that I refinished to match the Garand. That's the look tht I'm going for with the carbine (IF it's not an original).

M-1 Carbine Image Album

Thanks in advance!

Last edited by ChrsGuit; 08-28-2012 at 08:43 PM. Reason: Forgot to type a bit of information
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  #2  
Old 08-28-2012, 08:41 PM
bob loughlin bob loughlin is offline
 
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It is a War Time replacement stock, and Birch was used in the making of replacement stocks. Bob.
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  #3  
Old 08-28-2012, 09:06 PM
meplat meplat is offline
 
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Your stock does look like birch. My P-U stock (made by Pederson Brothers for Underwood) is walnut.



Every P-U stock I've seen bears the circles you see. These appear to have arisen from pressure rather than left by a cutter or router. But I'm not sure. They do seem characteristic for P-U though (in case your "J" is really a "U").

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  #4  
Old 08-28-2012, 09:07 PM
TSimonetti TSimonetti is offline
 
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Looks like you have something really nice, but as bob says, it's birch and, not the original or correct stock. The type 3 band, rear sight, and rotary safety are also incorrect. Milled trigger housing may also be incorrect.

So, if you like walnut, then get walnut. You can't really make a wrong decision on this one.
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Old 08-28-2012, 09:12 PM
ChrsGuit ChrsGuit is offline
 
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So it would be safe to say I'd be better off leaving it alone, or would it hurt (given the almost non-existant finish) to rub in a few coats of tru-oil to give it a walnut flavor? I know in the end it's my decision, but if this is a stock that is not all that valuable, it wouldn't hurt to make it what I want it to be (or just get a walnut stock and swap them out). I'd leave the dark places around the pistol grip and the fore-end, so it would maintain the darkened, well-worn GI look
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  #6  
Old 08-28-2012, 10:08 PM
TSimonetti TSimonetti is offline
 
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Without trying to sound flippant, I think it's safe to say that only you can determine which way to go on this one......Keep in mind birch will always be birch and most who look at it will always know it's birch no matter what you do with it....., so If you prefer walnut, you should get walnut. You would not be doing any kind of disservice to the carbine if you remove the birch stock and nor would swapping stocks necessarily reduce the value of the carbine.. As for tru-oil, most historical purists would probably advise against using it on a carbine stock if indeed history is your major priority in deciding what to do.

But while the stock is not too valuable relatively speaking, it is a USGI stock, so in that respect it is a historical stock for that carbine as a representation of the rebuild/refurbish process that the carbine went through....although again, it is not "correct" for that particular carbine.

So in short, if you want a well-worn GI look, then leave it like it is, it's perfect.... just rub in a few coats of boiled linseed oil...., but if the birch is going to irk you because it's not walnut, then you'll have to deal with those feelings as well.

Last edited by TSimonetti; 08-28-2012 at 10:19 PM.
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Old 08-29-2012, 05:47 AM
ChrsGuit ChrsGuit is offline
 
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Thanks TSI. Nah, I know you mean well. I have considered just getting another stock. I have taken a stock and been able to adjust the staining and oiling tobmake it appear as walnut. In my photo link above, the model 12 trench gun stock was almost solid white before I finished it. Very much a maple/ash look. If this stock is not a rarity or common one, then I'd consider working it. I will probably just procure me a walnut stock and be done withbit. Maybe even relic it to make it appear authentic for my display and collection purposes
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  #8  
Old 08-29-2012, 11:23 PM
usgicollector usgicollector is offline
 
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Your stock is truely marked P-J. It is a wartime replacement stock. They were know to have the small crossed cannons on the right side or in the sling cut-out.
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Old 08-30-2012, 01:28 PM
ChrsGuit ChrsGuit is offline
 
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Thanks so much for all of the help and responses. I hope this doesn't come off as sacreligious, but I decided to take my existing stock and add 2 coats of red mahogany and linseed oil to it. I did some digging and it seems that the birch replacement stocks were originally dyed or stained to make them appear walnut and meet service criteria. I did not sand or strip my stock since good portions were almost entirely raw. My mindset with this is that the wear and use is still visible, the stock will appear closer to its wartime state, the history is still preserved, and its appearance is what I want. I will post pictures once I finish it. It is looking great, and I'm excited to finish it up. Thanks again!
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  #10  
Old 08-31-2012, 12:47 PM
ChrsGuit ChrsGuit is offline
 
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Here's what I have so far...
http://s1269.photobucket.com/albums/...ock/?start=all
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