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  #1  
Old 12-31-2018, 11:45 PM
mike9905 mike9905 is offline
 
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Posts: 447
Default M14-Full Auto

It is no secret that the M14 is uncontrollable firing full auto. I recently read that the H&K G3 and the FAL, in spite of their straight line stocks, are not much better. Anyone have personal experience?
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  #2  
Old 01-01-2019, 12:52 AM
lonegunman lonegunman is offline
 
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Location: Eastern Washington state
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I have shot an M-14E2 and an H&K G3/91 both pretty much sucked in full auto. I watched about a dozen guys fire the M-14 one afternoon and none of them could hang on for more than a few rounds without firing off into space.

I managed to get 3 of 5 rounds of a burst on a silhouette target at 75yds most of the time. I'd have rather just squeezed a quick double tap and used the other rounds for something else.
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  #3  
Old 01-01-2019, 10:31 AM
JimF JimF is offline
 
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Another way to use the M1907 sling w/the M14 on full auto mode, is to dangle the sling from the forward swivel . . .

Then STAND on the portion of the sling that is ON THE GROUND!!
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  #4  
Old 01-01-2019, 10:52 AM
BobJ50 BobJ50 is offline
 
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Location: Georgia
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I completely agree with text about controlled vs uncontrolled fire and full-automatic weapons [caliber generally irrelevant]. I also remember my experience in 1961 with the Garand and M-14 [more show and tell rather than issue], and the range officers telling us young troopers that rapid fire [semi-aimed] at a man 1000 yards away, if not hitting him, would scare the bejeezus out of him when the dirt and rocks started flying.
A cousin of mine, who served in VietNam, told me that he and the rest of the men in his unit would often hold their M-16's over their heads [while they were under cover] and unload the full mag with little concern about whether they hit the "target." He was pretty sure that their "target" felt the same.
Target shooting and combat shooting are two entirely different animals and fire discipline most usually goes out the window, especially in a closed environment.
*A long, interesting article that we can argue about, or discuss:
https://www.quora.com/Why-do-militar...fire-in-bursts
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  #5  
Old 01-01-2019, 12:54 PM
Mike in Wis. Mike in Wis. is offline
 
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Location: Wisconsin
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Yes... while the Izzy HB FAL was marginally better, it's generally a spray and pray weapon on full auto. Generally, the troopers used full auto in bursts as cover fire when aiming in a general target direction/area. Any aimed shots at individual targets were fired semi automatic.
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  #6  
Old 01-01-2019, 02:13 PM
Eliyahu Eliyahu is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Texas
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The M14 was an outright failure on automatic; the G-3 has a ridiculous amount of reciprocating mass, resulting in the operator enduring a beating; the FN FAL is supposedly controllable for bursts in 'heavy barrel' configuration or if equipped with a compensator.
Oddly, the BM59 with Beretta's 'Tri-Compensator' seems to be the most controllable 7.62 Assault Rifle: https://youtu.be/JMU6ylVMcgQ and https://youtu.be/AEmoVVLqgtQ demonstrate it rather well!

Eli
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Last edited by Eliyahu; 01-01-2019 at 02:15 PM.
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  #7  
Old 01-01-2019, 02:37 PM
tnw50cal tnw50cal is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Cleveland,Ohio
Posts: 321
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I've fired a full auto M1A a lot. From the shoulder 3 round burst(trigger control)at a man sized target I get all 3 rounds in the target. From prone in a E2 stock/bipod I can get all 20 rounds in the same target. Now standing with a standard stock and dumping the mag is all over the place.
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  #8  
Old 01-02-2019, 11:49 AM
M14 M14 is offline
 
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Location: south mississippi
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You know, I see this type thing posted all the time about the M14 being uncontrollable, and I have to agree with tnw50cal. I have no problem staying on target ..... in any position.

The guys that say this stuff either have never really had a lot of experience with doing this, or their technique is wrong. You have to be ready for it. You have to be trained for it. It can't be a surprise and still be done well. That's why some guys are called designated.

I didn't say it was easy, just that it is possible with practice. It might help if you are 6'-6" tall and weigh 242lbs. like me, but I have known much smaller guys that are better with the M14 than I am in selected modes of operation.

I know one LEO here locally that can hold 5 to 6 rd. burst on an echo target at 100yds. in the offhand. The target looks like someone put a dotted line from the belt on it's lower right, to it's shoulder on it's top left. Nice, evenly spaced rounds too. Like I wrote, it's all technique and practice.....with any weapons system.

Bottom line, get yourself one each of the big three rifles mentioned in this thread, and buy lots of ammo. You'll learn.

P.S.
I really hate to write this, but I love shooting the G3 as well.....just not as much as the M14. ......The weight of the M14 holds it much better on target than the G3 I train LEO's to use. Most all of those guys are all about the M4 these days anyway. They look at the G3 and M14 as if it is some kind of antique they never saw before.....most haven't.

The only reason we run them through the operation of these rifles, is in case they ever come up against one of them.....which they have. Not recently, but a clown used an M14 semi-auto type to do some bad business and the locals took him out with a Remington bolt gun in 30-06. Ruined his day.
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  #9  
Old 01-04-2019, 06:35 PM
.22shooter .22shooter is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: VA
Posts: 2,210
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Never fired any of them in full auto. Ergonomics certainly plays a part in felt recoil but WEIGHT has to be the biggest factor. All of the weapons mentioned are all close in weight and I would therefore assume they all suck in full auto.

Bill

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  #10  
Old 01-06-2019, 08:16 AM
Jack Hammer Jack Hammer is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Noreast
Posts: 177
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I missed the Viet Nam War by just a couple of years (something I regret) so I can't speak from experience but I recently read that the M14 was overwhelmingly issued with the select fire disabled. nf1e and others I.m sure will know the answer to this one.
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