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  #91  
Old 05-19-2014, 08:05 AM
Calfed Calfed is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy A View Post
I have the option of an original USMC one and had planned on using it,
I would be very careful using an original USMC Unertl scope. If it is an original scope, it should be marked "USMC" and is worth thousands of dollars.
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  #92  
Old 05-19-2014, 08:52 PM
Randy A Randy A is offline
 
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Yep, sure is, USMC Sniper I posted pics on here a year ago, serial number is low 1300s.
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  #93  
Old 05-19-2014, 09:15 PM
wesvb wesvb is offline
 
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If judged by the experts to be a legit USMC Unertl it is worth quite a bit North of $5,000.
There are more fakes out there than originals.
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  #94  
Old 03-06-2019, 06:22 PM
hebes405 hebes405 is online now
 
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Just for fun, I'm reviving this post. My hi lux seems to working just fine. I wish the return spring was allowed in competition, it's very unfortunate natural to grab the scope after every shot.
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  #95  
Old 03-06-2019, 07:09 PM
motorcop motorcop is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy A View Post
I have the option of an original USMC one and had planned on using it, but have read that the glass is so much better in the Hi-Lux I'm considering getting one. I'm going to shoot the h**l out of it and would rather not risk cratering an original, specially if a cheaper version has better glass. I also prefer the style (look) of the unertl, so I don't want to go with the MVA.
I know this "was" an old thread, but has anyone bought one recently, have they improved? Also, what about the improved Creedmoor ones, do they have the laundry list of problems/high return rate? What about the guys building these rifles (having bought multiple scopes) what are your thoughts?
Thanks,
It's the same scope, just sold by Creedmore. I guess I must be a bit strange, if I were going to be looking for an 8X scope for VS matches I would be watching the usual sites and bidding/buying what seems decent and go from there. Using an original USMC scope is sheer madness based on their value. The lenses are getting old in them and my guess would be brittle too. Crack a lens and now what is your USMC scope worth? I have a proper Lyman for the game as well as a Unertl and both work very well. the Lymans haven't hit the big dollars yet so you can usually find them quite a bit cheaper than a Unertl. In many respects I like the Lyman better.

While some may say they have no problems with the ChiCom stuff more power to them. There are a couple of places in the US making external adjustment scopes now that should be legal from my understanding for VSM, but they just don't quite look like a Unertl. They work and they are made here in the US. I would be really hard pressed to buy one of the Chinese made scopes because they aren't all that much less than a Unertl or Lyman. Life is too short not to have a proper scope.


Rick H.
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  #96  
Old 03-06-2019, 07:47 PM
cplnorton cplnorton is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motorcop View Post
Using an original USMC scope is sheer madness based on their value.

Rick H.
There is one guy I know who is not only using an original USMC Unertl scope in the Vintage sniper matches at Perry, but he's using an original USMC Unertl Sniper rifle as well.

It's the only real rifle I know of that has ever been used in the matches.

To be honest the scope doesn't worry me as much. But if he would crack the original numbered NM stock to the rifle, or he would break the blued polished extractor on the bolt. You literally can't replace that stuff.

The funny thing I think he said last year he had it out shooting and it started to rain on his rifle. lol

But I have to commend him though. He lets a lot of people shoot it, and let the Marine team take turns on it as well.

Not many can say they ever shot a real Unertl Sniper rifle. So that is awesome he lets people experience that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hebes405 View Post
Just for fun, I'm reviving this post. My hi lux seems to working just fine. I wish the return spring was allowed in competition, it's very unfortunate natural to grab the scope after every shot.
They actually didn't run a spring on the original ones because the recoil of the rifle with the spring on it, will eventually damage the scope. The scopes need to slide with the recoil to be able to withstand repeated shots.

They only ran springs on small bore because the recoil wouldn't hurt it.

Last edited by Big_Red; 03-07-2019 at 08:29 AM. Reason: Merge consecutive posts
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  #97  
Old 03-06-2019, 09:37 PM
hebes405 hebes405 is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cplnorton View Post
They actually didn't run a spring on the original ones because the recoil of the rifle with the spring on it, will eventually damage the scope. The scopes need to slide with the recoil to be able to withstand repeated shots.

They only ran springs on small bore because the recoil wouldn't hurt it.
I'm no history expert but I think they didn't run the spring because it wasn't invented yet or the springs were thrown away between wars. The pictures of the the Vietnam era ubertl scopes have the return spring.

This is just my opinion. Not based on any facts.

Besides, I'm not sure how a spring, designed to absorb recoil, would damage a steel tube. The scopes barely move under recoil anyways. Thats why they probably don't allow it for the match, because it wasn't around yet.
If recoil was going to hurt a scope it would definitely be this one!
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  #98  
Old 03-07-2019, 07:12 AM
Bill77 Bill77 is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motorcop View Post
While some may say they have no problems with the ChiCom stuff more power to them. There are a couple of places in the US making external adjustment scopes now that should be legal from my understanding for VSM, but they just don't quite look like a Unertl. They work and they are made here in the US. I would be really hard pressed to buy one of the Chinese made scopes because they aren't all that much less than a Unertl or Lyman. Life is too short not to have a proper scope.
Rick H.
The biggest shortcoming of the Chinese scopes is the mechanics. Take their Unertl repro in a proper set of adjustments and you have a better scope than anything made in 40's, 50's and 60's.

Computer designed and ground optical packages yield a better and more consistent product than anything that was designed on paper and ground by hand back in the day. Even the crappiest of Chinese lens coatings are better than nothing at all and the use of modern bonding agents for lens fixturing are way better than the balsam sap used in the older scopes.

Don't get me wrong, there's something special about having the real thing (even if not a USMC-issued real thing), but when competing and everyone is looking for the slightest edge over the next guy, good optics ain't a bad thing to have.

I've been chatting with one of my optical engineers at work about an idea to study/compare the quality of today's modern Chinese reproductions compared to the originals. We'd put them on a collimater and compare tracking accuracy, get them on the resolution machine and compare the resolving power and the Wells Machine for aberrations in the lens quality. It would be a fun project, but the lack of time and product makes it nothing more than a discussion topic at this point.
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  #99  
Old 03-07-2019, 07:49 AM
ceresco ceresco is online now
 
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While I would agree that the repro has potentially better optical qualities than the older scopes, there are some issues with the scope not related to the mounts. Threads seem to be a problem for the Chinese and this shows up in any part of the repro that has them. There are poorly matched and extremely rough (burred) surfaces. The crosshairs are imprinted on a flimsy plastic disc and my tube has a two inch longitudinal crack starting from under the AO. The company will respond to problems wit their scopes, which is fortunate, since it seems that owning one is a pretty good start to meeting them. Good Shooting. ....
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  #100  
Old 03-07-2019, 04:04 PM
cplnorton cplnorton is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hebes405 View Post
I'm no history expert but I think they didn't run the spring because it wasn't invented yet or the springs were thrown away between wars. The pictures of the the Vietnam era ubertl scopes have the return spring.
Somewhere in the piles, I have the actual Marine Corps documents that state that they didn't put the springs on the scopes for hi power, because it would cause excessive vibration when fired that eventually caused the scope to shake apart.

Also I have never seen any evidence of the springs being used in Nam on the Unertl scopes, do you have a pic of a spring being used in Vietnam? I have a lot of pics of the sniper rifles in Nam, even unpublished ones, and I've never seen one.

Now I have seen springs on USMC Unertls that exist today, but usually the magnificaiton has been changed to a higher magnification as well for small bore. Even though these scopes are famous to the M1903 and Model 70, the Marines used them more for smallbore training rifles than they ever did on a sniper rifle.

On the quality of the scopes, I have owned several real USMC Unertl scopes, and still currently own two. I have only ever handled a chicom copy and never used one in detail, but I have to say the glass in the chicom scope was clearer. It was much clearer than the original Unertl.

Now I did try the micrometers on the Chicom scope and they didn't feel as clean as a real Unertl. The real Unertl definetly had a much better mount set up than the chicom.

Last edited by cplnorton; 03-07-2019 at 04:09 PM.
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