Go Back   CMP Forums > CMP Sales > CMP Bolt Action Rifles
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 06-09-2017, 06:56 PM
New Jersey Devil New Jersey Devil is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: PRNJ
Posts: 346
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RC20 View Post
So no, that paragraphs does not mean he had a 1903. ....as the troops moved in and our and around France, there was the issue of who they served with, what guns to equip them with as the Brits had 303, French had the (8mm Label?)

It was easier to equip them with the same guns and ammo as the adjacent units.

Historians have followed the trail of Sgt York and his unit, they trained and were issued 1917s, they crated their guns and those followed them and he fought most of his battles with with a 1917.

The paragraph I posted is directly from Sergeant Alvin York's private diary, which says precisely the opposite. He did bring his rifle from America, but it got swapped out in mandatory fashion in France to a 1917, which he was not happy about.


And the 1917 that York used was not a 303 style Enfield like the Brits used, it was chambered in .30-06, which was confirmed by battlefield archaeology of the area about 10 years ago.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 06-09-2017, 09:22 PM
Jpm Jpm is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,464
Default

but the 1917 was not a 'British gun' like he says in his diary, and he doesn't say its a 1917, and I'm sure he would have known the difference between one that says right on it "U.S. Model of 1917" and a non-U.S. arm.
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 06-09-2017, 09:35 PM
hquiles hquiles is online now
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Puerto Rico
Posts: 556
Default

I read on many forums, that soldiers called the M1917, the "British rifle"or "American Enfield", because it was the same rifle the brits used (P14 Enfield), with just different ammo.

So, it's just an Enfield rifle chambered with 30-06. The M1917 holds 6 rounds vs P14's 5 rounds, because the rifle was designed for the .303 bottlenecked cartridges.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 06-09-2017, 09:43 PM
New Jersey Devil New Jersey Devil is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: PRNJ
Posts: 346
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpm View Post
but the 1917 was not a 'British gun' like he says in his diary, and he doesn't say its a 1917, and I'm sure he would have known the difference between one that says right on it "U.S. Model of 1917" and a non-U.S. arm.
The M1917 was a "British gun" manufactured in America. It's essentially 100% an Enfield, simply chambered in .30-06, and the soldiers were well aware of this.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 06-09-2017, 11:31 PM
RC20 RC20 is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 572
Default

I have read Mr. Culvers account of tracing their guns and shipments of their Models of 1917s to France. It is detailed and definitive.

He is shown with his unit marching through Paris with a Model of 1917.

Much is made of the use of 1903 in the movie and that he approved it as his gun.

He also apparently approve the use of a Luger.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 06-10-2017, 10:58 AM
Firstflabn Firstflabn is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: FL
Posts: 746
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Jersey Devil View Post
The paragraph I posted is directly from Sergeant Alvin York's private diary, which says precisely the opposite. He did bring his rifle from America, but it got swapped out in mandatory fashion in France to a 1917, which he was not happy about.


And the 1917 that York used was not a 303 style Enfield like the Brits used, it was chambered in .30-06, which was confirmed by battlefield archaeology of the area about 10 years ago.
There's the same amount of credible evidence that York ever touched an '03 during his service as there is that he carried a Super Soaker. You manage to get the sequence out of whack about what he was initially issued by drawing a conclusion from an ambiguous entry in a diary rewritten a decade later.

That fuzzy York entry is at odds with the division history - which was written by a board of officers while waiting to return from France. No chance of getting tripped up by ambiguity with that one:

Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 06-10-2017, 01:19 PM
New Jersey Devil New Jersey Devil is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: PRNJ
Posts: 346
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firstflabn View Post
That fuzzy York entry is at odds with the division history - which was written by a board of officers while waiting to return from France.
Just read what you posted there, and I dont see what you're attempting to say. Doesnt really say much, mainly talks about the "supply" issue, which everyone already knows.

In any event, there's nothing "fuzzy" about York's diary. It was written in his own hand, in chronological order, literally as the events were occurring. I have no idea why anyone would refute the man's own daily wartime diary of his experiences.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 06-11-2017, 10:05 PM
RC20 RC20 is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 572
Default

Because he did not say I was given Model XXX that was caliber xxxx. That is the very definition of ambiguous . British rifle? Could be an SMLE, P1914 or 1917, all were British rifles. The fact he did not like it and was not familiar with it argues SMLE

Nothing against him, but that is vague. He was not the most literate man in the world and that is not out of any disrespect. His diary was not intended as a legal document and more to do with his daily life.

On the other hand the unit history clearly says 1917 and all the supporting evidence says so as well.
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 06-12-2017, 11:24 PM
Big_Red Big_Red is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: TX
Posts: 1,929
Exclamation

Ok, the Sergeant York discussion has been flogged more than sufficiently in myriad threads...no reason to hijack this thread with it any further.
Thank you.
__________________
Proud son of a Vietnam Veteran (1969, 1970) - In memoriam
OEF - '02, '08 / OIF - '03, '10 / OND - '11 / OIR/OEF - '15

CMP Customer / GCA Member / VFW & NRA Life Member


Feedback Thread: http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=137544
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 06-14-2017, 01:07 PM
RC20 RC20 is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 572
Default

But we always have someone new to educate!

Ok, done
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:06 AM.