Go Back   CMP Forums > CMP Sales > CMP Bolt Action Rifles
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 06-07-2018, 08:53 AM
amadeus76 amadeus76 is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 118
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZvenoMan View Post


Is greatest the most accurate? Best performing in a national match type event? Fastest shooting, longest range, uses volley sights, lightest, least recoil, lightest ammo, fastest loading, highest capacity, most numerous, longest serving? Or "most influential" (in a battle, war, continent, technologically, to history)? If we place a point value to each of those and use math to determine a winner is that "the" answer?


JH
I see what youíre saying and to an extent agree. For me it comes down to a combination of capacity, accuracy, reliability, cycle speed, and balance. Factoring all those categories in I feel the No4 beats out all other rifles... Even when I personally favor the 1903a3 and K31 over it. But again, Iím not fighting a war with a bolt action rifle.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 06-07-2018, 08:57 AM
Smal Smal is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cocoa,Florida
Posts: 1,060
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick the Librarian View Post
I would also have to go with the No. 4 Mk. I. While other rifles had better "individual features", I think as a whole, the No. 4 was the best of the bunch.

Now as for "Best looking", there is really no contest! LOL!!



I agree on best looking I love the Early 1903,s and there pretty darn accurate,great actions too, Your Spot on here!
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 06-07-2018, 09:02 AM
Roadkingtrax Roadkingtrax is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: AZ
Posts: 8,507
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amadeus76 View Post
Vintage matches are hardly conducted in the same harsh conditions found in wartime. And let’s be honest, the winners are usually running rifles that have been accurized as far as they can be within the rules... Hardly truly ‘as issued’. If accuracy was all that mattered then the Ross rifle, which is capable of sub-MOA accuracy, would easily be the greatest combat bolt rifle. But it’s not and no one in their right mind would argue the Ross as a great combat rifle or really even a good one.

Capacity, reliability, accuracy, and rate of fire all factor in to what makes a great combat rifle. In two of those categories no other rifle can beat the Enfield, and the action certainly proved reliable in the muddy conditions of WWI. Despite what you say the Enfield is an accurate rifle. Is it going to beat out a K31 or an M39, no. But if it truly was an inaccurate rifle it wouldn’t have been the standard arm of the British empire for over 60 years. If you think it’s inaccurate the problem probably lies, as it usually does, with the shooter.
When you're trying to kill an enemy, accuracy better be #1.

The only environment outside of Afghanistan where the Enfield is ever used today, under stress, is in competition. I've seen more saved rounds from Enfields (save for the M1917) than any other rifle combined.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 06-07-2018, 09:06 AM
Rick the Librarian Rick the Librarian is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: NW Washington State
Posts: 6,970
Default

I may be a little bit prejudiced ... my first milsurp was a No. 4 Mk. I that I picked up for $18.95 in 1966 in a department store in Spokane (remember when you could do THAT???). Still have it, as you can see.



__________________
"We make men without chests and expect from them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst."
--C.S. Lewis
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 06-07-2018, 09:18 AM
Smal Smal is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cocoa,Florida
Posts: 1,060
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick the Librarian View Post
I may be a little bit prejudiced ... my first milsurp was a No. 4 Mk. I that I picked up for $18.95 in 1966 in a department store in Spokane (remember when you could do THAT???). Still have it, as you can see.



My first was also an Enfield a No4Mk1 Long Branch paid a little more for mine $70.00 and I still have it I just did a total restoration on it as it was a sporterized one, So I put it back all original for the cost of an Enfield back then you get a whole heck of a lot of rifle rugged !
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 06-07-2018, 09:37 AM
MLD MLD is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: north central Ohio
Posts: 348
Default

Is there any bolt gun that had to function under any worse battle conditions, for any longer period, than the SMLE through out WW1?Not being argumentative, just curious. Not a bolt expert, so hit away.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 06-07-2018, 09:46 AM
SmokeEaterPilot SmokeEaterPilot is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Maryland
Posts: 202
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by S99VG View Post
I get what you are saying but sometimes a purchase has more to do with economy than it does with superior function, or in this case availability on the open market. I don't mean this as a direct counter to your point, which is a good point, but the No. 4 (as far as I know) was never offered for sale to foreign powers such as was the Mauser in all its incarnations - which were sold n the bizillions.

And, to be a real stinker in this discussion, by the time we get to WWII I'd have to say that the best bolt gun being fielded by any army was the M1 Garand (albeit a gas and not hand operated bolt).

And to be another real stinker, how about the Arisaka? Some consider it to be the strongest 98 action ever built. They are ugly and represent a bitter chapter in American history, but as a bolt action technology they should be considered (which rarely happens on this forum).
All your points are absolutely valid. And I wasn't very much committed to that point just a passing thought.

But I will say economy is definitely a variable of "greatest." Which comes back to "cost vs benefit." Do bigger budgets bring better firearms? Possibly, to some degree? But I'd argue best is also "best" is also most desired outcome considering available resources and funding to design a rifle to meet that goal. So I wouldn't dismiss the economy as not a vital factor in choosing one "best bolt action rifle."

Short end, I still agree with your counter points.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 06-07-2018, 10:38 AM
S99VG S99VG is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 2,073
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeEaterPilot View Post
All your points are absolutely valid. And I wasn't very much committed to that point just a passing thought.

But I will say economy is definitely a variable of "greatest." Which comes back to "cost vs benefit." Do bigger budgets bring better firearms? Possibly, to some degree? But I'd argue best is also "best" is also most desired outcome considering available resources and funding to design a rifle to meet that goal. So I wouldn't dismiss the economy as not a vital factor in choosing one "best bolt action rifle."

Short end, I still agree with your counter points.
But it would be an interesting fact knowing who sold the most. My gut feeling leans towards Mauser. Just about everyone and their cousin had one or another of their products. And before that I think they all pretty much had Remington Rolling Blocks.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 06-07-2018, 10:40 AM
Rick the Librarian Rick the Librarian is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: NW Washington State
Posts: 6,970
Default

This is obviously one of those subjects that everyone will have an opinion and most of them will be commonsense and well thought out. No one answer.
__________________
"We make men without chests and expect from them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst."
--C.S. Lewis
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 06-07-2018, 10:40 AM
S99VG S99VG is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 2,073
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick the Librarian View Post
I may be a little bit prejudiced ... my first milsurp was a No. 4 Mk. I that I picked up for $18.95 in 1966 in a department store in Spokane (remember when you could do THAT???). Still have it, as you can see.



And that in itself is a damn good reason!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:49 AM.