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  #1  
Old 12-03-2010, 06:24 PM
superdave269 superdave269 is offline
 
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Default Light loads for early 1903

Does anyone reload light loads for the early 1903? I reload some rounds today for my garand and it got me to thinking wouldn't it be nice to shoot that low number 1903. Years ago I reload some light loads for a rifle that was 30-40 Criag. If you have a safe recipe for the early 1903 Springfield please share it. Thanks
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  #2  
Old 12-03-2010, 07:24 PM
irishsteve irishsteve is offline
 
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There are no known safe early 03 loads.This is one of the oldest problems in firearms.Failure has much to do with brass case failure.In WW1 brass was poor,and a case failure could cause the receiver to fail.With good brass you might never have a problem even with standard loads,OR you might have a case failure with a light load,and ruin the rifle,or get hurt,or worse.No way to tell until it happens.Many guys have shot them for 80 years including the USMC,but each trigger pull is a new event.You are truly on your own.
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  #3  
Old 12-03-2010, 08:01 PM
HughUno HughUno is offline
 
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there has NOT been even one single documented LN 03 ammunition-related failure since BEFORE WWII (that's 70 years ago BTW). During WW2 when hundreds of thousands of LN rifles were used in training and COMBAT firing MILLIONS and MILLIONS and MILLIONS of rounds, NOT ONE SINGLE documented ammunition-related failure. Since then, at least tens of thousands of LN rifles have been shot, converted to hunting rifles etc. Again ZILCH.

Shoot any reasonable GI or factory ammunition you like in your LN rifle. My LN rifle has a 1944 High Standard barrel on it, that was put ON the rifle about that time and proof fired. heck, almost half the LN rifles you seem to run into have WW2 barrels on em. I shoot mine without ANY hesitation whatsoever.

Tehcnically, people who say 'don't shoot a LN 03' would be giving you better advice by telling you to "don't shoot a SA inc. M1A or 7M M1." There are SEVERAL fully documented ammunition-related CATASTROPHIC failures of these rifles including at least one dead guy, yet we all go out and 'recklessly' put ourselves at "risk" shooting these all the time! LOL
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  #4  
Old 12-03-2010, 11:17 PM
kollector03 kollector03 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HughUno View Post
there has NOT been even one single documented LN 03 ammunition-related failure since BEFORE WWII (that's 70 years ago BTW). During WW2 when hundreds of thousands of LN rifles were used in training and COMBAT firing MILLIONS and MILLIONS and MILLIONS of rounds, NOT ONE SINGLE documented ammunition-related failure. Since then, at least tens of thousands of LN rifles have been shot, converted to hunting rifles etc. Again ZILCH.

Shoot any reasonable GI or factory ammunition you like in your LN rifle. My LN rifle has a 1944 High Standard barrel on it, that was put ON the rifle about that time and proof fired. heck, almost half the LN rifles you seem to run into have WW2 barrels on em. I shoot mine without ANY hesitation whatsoever.

Tehcnically, people who say 'don't shoot a LN 03' would be giving you better advice by telling you to "don't shoot a SA inc. M1A or 7M M1." There are SEVERAL fully documented ammunition-related CATASTROPHIC failures of these rifles including at least one dead guy, yet we all go out and 'recklessly' put ourselves at "risk" shooting these all the time! LOL
This seems to be reckless advice considering every resource available including the US Ordnance Dept (who withdrew the LN '03 rifles after the crisis of WWII ended) warns against firing any LN SA or RIA M1903 rifle. Even the CMP and DCM recognize the risk and the LN M1903 rifles are not permitted to be used in competition events.

If you want to shoot a M1903 rifle, there are plenty of High Number rifles readily available.

For what it's worth, My recommendation would be to adhere to all known published resources and do not fire a LN M1903 rifle under any circumstances.
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  #5  
Old 12-03-2010, 11:36 PM
KRAG-30-40 KRAG-30-40 is offline
 
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This subject always ends up with two divergent opinions,safe to shoot and not safe to shoot.The number of actual documented failures was statisticly small.Some were found to be due to substandard or incorrect ammunition.The U.S.Ordnance Dept.did take them out of service prior to WW2.They were taken from storage and issued during WW2.It was determined due to the low failure rate of LN number receivers it was worth the risk to put them back in service due to the emergency at hand at that time.

Numbers of these were sold through the DCM which later offered replacement HN receivers at a nominal cost.

The chance of getting your head blown off shooting the LN 03 is statisticly small.About one in a 100,000.You must decide for yourself if you want to be that one.And keep in the mind the guy saying go ahead and shoot it ain't.

Last edited by KRAG-30-40; 12-03-2010 at 11:38 PM.
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  #6  
Old 12-04-2010, 01:47 AM
kollector03 kollector03 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KRAG-30-40 View Post
.You must decide for yourself if you want to be that one.And keep in the mind the guy saying go ahead and shoot it ain't.
This is a pretty good piece of advise.
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  #7  
Old 12-04-2010, 04:08 AM
HughUno HughUno is offline
 
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Default this is a ridiculous statistic

Quote:
Originally Posted by KRAG-30-40 View Post
The chance of getting your head blown off shooting the LN 03 is statisticly small.About one in a 100,000.You must decide for yourself if you want to be that one.And keep in the mind the guy saying go ahead and shoot it ain't.
and was/is only accurate if you are shooting early 'soft brass' ammo in an early rifle. The ACTUAL measured risk of shooting a LN rifle with normal military (or commercial) ammo after 1929 is some number VERY VERY VERY close to ZERO percent. That seems far from "reckless."

In fact, the ACTUAL risk of shooting a LN rifle is DWARFED by the ACTUAL risk of riding any AMUSEMENT PARK ride. Think about that next time you hop on board the Magic Mountain Express with your little grand-kid..

U.S. Amusement Ride Fatalities
(1972-1997)

This page documents fatalities resulting from amusement ride accidents at U.S. amusement parks and carnivals from 1972 through 1997. Accidents since 1997 are reported in the RideAccidents news archives.

http://www.rideaccidents.com/rides.html

http://www.rideaccidents.com/ (very sobering stuff!)


Last edited by HughUno; 12-04-2010 at 04:28 AM.
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  #8  
Old 12-04-2010, 05:05 AM
KRAG-30-40 KRAG-30-40 is offline
 
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There have been NO statistics kept on LN M1903 receiver failures by the U.S.military since 1929 when their study ended or much of anybody else since.To the OP here is some FACTUAL information.Some have different opinions in the M1903 collecting world on this report for and against http://m1903.com/03rcvrfail It is up to you to access the risk involved.


LOL And uno you don't have to worry about me getting on one of those carnival rides,no kids,no grandkids,and I didn't like them when I was kid 50 odd years ago when there were virtually no safety features.However I did like racing go-karts but my old man took mine away,he said I didn't know when to let off the accelorator.
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  #9  
Old 12-04-2010, 05:57 AM
8milimeter 8milimeter is offline
 
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SuperDave, here are two loads I shoot in my LN RIA.
152g M2 bullet, 26g IMR SR4759 3.325oal
152g M2 bullet, 35g IMR4895 3.325oal
Either of these will stay in the ten ring.
Use at your own discretion
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  #10  
Old 12-04-2010, 06:41 AM
Rick the Librarian Rick the Librarian is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KRAG-30-40 View Post
This subject always ends up with two divergent opinions,safe to shoot and not safe to shoot.The number of actual documented failures was statisticly small.Some were found to be due to substandard or incorrect ammunition.The U.S.Ordnance Dept.did take them out of service prior to WW2.They were taken from storage and issued during WW2.It was determined due to the low failure rate of LN number receivers it was worth the risk to put them back in service due to the emergency at hand at that time.

Numbers of these were sold through the DCM which later offered replacement HN receivers at a nominal cost.

The chance of getting your head blown off shooting the LN 03 is statisticly small.About one in a 100,000.You must decide for yourself if you want to be that one.And keep in the mind the guy saying go ahead and shoot it ain't.
I agree completely with Krag (like I agree with him on nearly everything else! ) except that Ordnance did not actually remove these rifles from service except when they came in for major overhaul. It was proposed that they be either removed from service or used as a war reserve but it wasn't acted upon. What was done is when rifles were sent in for overhaul at the major arsenals, low numbered receivers were usually taken off and scrapped. Postwar, the DCM had a standing offer to trade in low numbered receivers for high numbered ones. In my opinion, there must have been a reason behind both actions.

As Bruce Canfield said, there is a "small but present" possibility of failure.

Low numbered M1903s were used during World War II, but it was a "war emergency", something that is hardly present today. Obviously, it is up to each individual to decided for themselves.

Most M1903 owners do not shoot low numbered M1903s; some do. I, personally, do not have a problem with anyone shooting these rifles, as long as they have studied the literature and make an informed decision, either way. I also agree, like politics and religion, that I doubt if any minds will be changed. (I find it interesting that using drill rifles has fallen pretty much into the same area of discussion). For the record, I do not shoot my LN M1903s. (Although, I admit that, in most cases, my LN M1903s are collectible).
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Last edited by Rick the Librarian; 12-04-2010 at 06:47 AM.
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