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  #21  
Old 12-04-2010, 08:04 AM
superdave269 superdave269 is offline
 
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Thanks for all of the imput on this topic. 20 years ago I used to shoot my 45/70 trapdoor Springfield. I made some light loads with black powder or pyrodex. I met a guy who mixed black powder and smokless in his reloads. I thought he was NUTS! I asked about the LN Springields because I have an early one that was drilled and tapped for the 1908 scope(now plugged) with a WW11 replaced barrel(lots of muzzle wear) that I would like to shoot a few rounds out of. I am talking about 20 rounds no more. I figured if I have the reloader set up I could make some light loads for it. This topic reminds me when I was a kid and I knew a guy who would claim to test fire his antique firearms with a rope after tying them to a tree.
Happy Holidays
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  #22  
Old 12-04-2010, 08:05 AM
Tinpig Tinpig is offline
 
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Not getting into the "should you" or "shouldn't you" question.

But to answer part of the OP's question, yes I have developed a reduced load for my 1929 Springfield 1903 and my 1943 Remington 03A3:

32 grains IMR 4895
150 grain FMJBT bullet

Thart's about 70% of the recommended starting load in the Lee Manual. Plenty accurate at 100 and 200 yds., and very easy on powder, brass, and my shoulder.

I love to shoot the '03, and that load lets me do so longer, more frequently and with more enjoyment than I did with factory HXP. At 67, beating on myself with a blunt object isn't nearly as much fun as it once was.

Tinpig
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  #23  
Old 12-04-2010, 08:18 AM
KRAG-30-40 KRAG-30-40 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superdave269 View Post
Thanks for all of the imput on this topic. 20 years ago I used to shoot my 45/70 trapdoor Springfield. I made some light loads with black powder or pyrodex. I met a guy who mixed black powder and smokless in his reloads. I thought he was NUTS!
It's called duplex loading.A small charge of smokeless powder(5 grains or so)then drop the main BP charge.It's a little cleaner shooting and an old time Schuetzen practice.Ideal Manufacturing made a duplex loading powder measure specifically for this with two powder hoppers,the No.6 measure.Pull handle one way drops priming charge of smokeless other way drops main BP charge.I have one but never have used it.They're hard to find and cost about a FG M1 price now.
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  #24  
Old 12-04-2010, 08:49 AM
steelap steelap is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HughUno View Post
and was/is only accurate if you are shooting early 'soft brass' ammo in an early rifle. The ACTUAL measured risk of shooting a LN rifle with normal military (or commercial) ammo after 1929 is some number VERY VERY VERY close to ZERO percent. That seems far from "reckless."

In fact, the ACTUAL risk of shooting a LN rifle is DWARFED by the ACTUAL risk of riding any AMUSEMENT PARK ride. Think about that next time you hop on board the Magic Mountain Express with your little grand-kid..

U.S. Amusement Ride Fatalities
(1972-1997)

This page documents fatalities resulting from amusement ride accidents at U.S. amusement parks and carnivals from 1972 through 1997. Accidents since 1997 are reported in the RideAccidents news archives.

http://www.rideaccidents.com/rides.html

http://www.rideaccidents.com/ (very sobering stuff!)

But WHO, other than you, advocates shooting a Low Number M1903 from a rollercoaster?

Come on, HughUno, you know in your heart that that's no safe!

"Life is Good!"
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  #25  
Old 12-04-2010, 09:04 AM
steelap steelap is offline
 
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Originally Posted by HughUno View Post
this is also incorrect (like a fair proportion of what you post). The Army (for which I am 100% positive) has records of EVERY training accident and injury going back from YESTERDAY to 1929 and before. ANY accident involving a weapons-related failure and for SURE any accident where someone is hurt worse than can be fixed with a Band-Aid is reported. Your (and others) lack of actual military experience is apparent, but having LIVED less than 1km from the US Army Safety Center, I can assure you that were there ANY such accidents (including in the ARNG), they would exist and be stored at that location.

As for scrapping rifles, IIRC actual scrapping was ordered DISCONTINUED after a couple years and very FEW were scrapped. The 100% certainty is that despite the fact that we were at war from 41-45, these LN rifles were used and used extremely HARD. MANY MANY MILLIONS of rounds and ZERO.ZERO problems. .
You are absolutely correct, the Army tracks accidents involving soldiers, DA civilians, and government contractors. Having said that, the time period (please correct me and I'll amend the post) for the M1903 (NOT the WWII M1903 or M1903A3) being issued as a general Service Rifle ended during WWII. The few rifles in service post WWII do not provide a large population compared to earlier years.

I DO NOT know, but do not think that the Army Safety Center tracks civilian casualties or foreign casualties for accidents involving firearms formerly used by US troops.

Finally, given that the War Department had already issued a report "condemning" (not exactly, but you know what I mean) Low Number M1903 rifles, would there have been any reason for the Army Safety Center to collate review data on M1903 accidents?

Finally, reference the Army Safety Center, I didn't find out when it was created. But, as I recall, Hatcher and Brophy say that accident/incidents concerning Army rifles (at least) were reported to Springfield Arsenal. What happened to their records I don't know. They may or may not have been transferred to the Army Safety Center.

"Life is Good!"
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  #26  
Old 12-04-2010, 11:02 AM
HughUno HughUno is offline
 
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apologies for not answering the question.

a no brainer and very accurate load is some variation of CE Wilson's "the Load" of 13 grains of Red Dot. I use 14.5-15.0 (best I recall) with 150-168+ and the rifle is about as loud as a .22 mag. It impacts 1 foot low, so crank up the rear sight accordingly. It is also exceedingly accurate and RD is bulky enough so a double-charge will flow out of the case mouth (not that I don't eyeball every round first).
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  #27  
Old 12-04-2010, 12:26 PM
Tinpig Tinpig is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superdave269 View Post
This topic reminds me when I was a kid and I knew a guy who would claim to test fire his antique firearms with a rope after tying them to a tree.
Guilty!
Someone gave me a very worn S&W Hand Ejector in .32-20. The bore looked OK, the lockup seemed OK, but who knows. I tied it to a 2' dia. white pine, stood behind another, and with a string, took a dozen shots. Everything was fine and I've been shooting it ever since. Nice accurate revolver. Again, very mild revolver hand loads.

Tinpig
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  #28  
Old 12-04-2010, 02:28 PM
HughUno HughUno is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinpig View Post
Guilty!
Someone gave me a very worn S&W Hand Ejector in .32-20. The bore looked OK, the lockup seemed OK, but who knows. I tied it to a 2' dia. white pine, stood behind another, and with a string, took a dozen shots. Everything was fine and I've been shooting it ever since. Nice accurate revolver. Again, very mild revolver hand loads.

Tinpig
you, (like many others) seem to be assuming that because something is made out of steel, that over time, the steel (somehow) get's weaker. Unless it is rusted or someone left it in a housefire then re-blued it, it is as strong TODAY as the day it was MADE. and.. while early N-frame SMiths are far from a RUger Redhawk, they can handle any reasonable pistol ammo. The 32-20 was for a long time the "357 magnum" of it's day, but the HE can also handle any reasonable standard .38 special ammo in virtually UNLIMITED quantities.
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  #29  
Old 12-04-2010, 02:33 PM
HughUno HughUno is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelap View Post
.
Finally, reference the Army Safety Center, I didn't find out when it was created. But, as I recall, Hatcher and Brophy say that accident/incidents concerning Army rifles (at least) were reported to Springfield Arsenal. What happened to their records I don't know. They may or may not have been transferred to the Army Safety Center.

"Life is Good!"
I suspect that even back pre-29, that Springfield got their data from HQDA and not directly from the user units. In other words, up from unit/division/corps etc. to DA then to SA. Besides common sense and the 'normal' channels, to assume otherwise, would in turn presume an inherent conflict of interest (for Springfield).
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  #30  
Old 12-04-2010, 02:52 PM
kollector03 kollector03 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HughUno View Post
you, (like many others) seem to be assuming that because something is made out of steel, that over time, the steel (somehow) get's weaker. Unless it is rusted or someone left it in a housefire then re-blued it, it is as strong TODAY as the day it was MADE. .
Isn't this the heart of the LN M1903 question. The initial process used to heat treat the steel forgings was called into question whether it was done properly resulting in brittle steel. The High Number receivers that followed used an improved double heat treatment process that eliminated this potential problem.

Don
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