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  #11  
Old 06-28-2019, 04:11 PM
Roadkingtrax Roadkingtrax is offline
 
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What are the dimensions of a 1000 yard target?
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  #12  
Old 06-28-2019, 06:47 PM
ceresco ceresco is offline
 
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....solve lubrication of necks??? No, I said adequate tumbling solves the problem of difficult case neck expansion. I suggest that this is a possibly better solution for case neck expansion problems than carbide expanders or lubricants. ....and you are correct that I have little interest or expertise in 1000yd shooting and the specific issues it presents. Good Shooting. ...
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  #13  
Old 06-28-2019, 07:06 PM
Steve9 Steve9 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Roadkingtrax View Post
What are the dimensions of a 1000 yard target?
How many angels can dance upon the head of a pin?
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  #14  
Old 06-29-2019, 07:56 AM
ceresco ceresco is offline
 
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Standard SR series targets have a 6 moa "black" center. That is 6 inches at 100yds, 18 inches at 300, 36 inches at 600yds, BUT, it is 44 inches for the NRA LR Target used for 800, 900 and 1000yds. Not sure about "F" class or other matches. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong. Just a bit more about neck tension:
It matters because with light 30-06 loads, "start pressure" is an important factor in ignition. I set aside rounds when I notice the bullet seating with too little resistance. Generally this is due to a split neck. Those rounds are broken down, components recovered and the case neck crushed. Other odd rounds are set aside and used for foulers. This is crude, but it removes potentially troublesome ammo from that used for "important" shooting. It is one thing to have sufficient neck tension, another to have uniform "bullet pull". I know only one way to create truly uniform neck tension. There are just too many variables to depend on Lapua brass, case neck uniformity, bushing neck dies, etc. That one method is to have essentially no bullet pull. I have a special bench rest .223 that utilizes unique chamber/neck dimensions which fireforms the brass to a rather loose case neck and a "collar" to set seating depth. The cases are sized with a body sizing die that does not alter the neck. Bullets are seated by hand to the stop...essentially no neck tension and consequently, no variation in "bullet pull". This method was tried some years ago but never became popular. I suspect that other loading methods produced equal or better results and were not so complicated. I learned something when I acquired the rifle (came with the special sizing die and a big Unertl 20X). Not trying to convert anyone, just sharing something. Good Shooting. ...

Last edited by ceresco; 06-30-2019 at 05:02 AM. Reason: Corrected errors
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  #15  
Old 06-29-2019, 08:11 AM
milprileb milprileb is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Roadkingtrax View Post
What are the dimensions of a 1000 yard target?
I shoot skeet birds at 1000 yds here at Quantico but certainly not with a M1 Rifle...all scoped bolt action rifles in chassis stock systems.
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  #16  
Old 06-29-2019, 08:20 AM
milprileb milprileb is offline
 
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I'm just laying the facts on carbide expander assembly , you can deny, accept or ignore bu there are a few here who do it beside me and find the results worthwhile.

Ceresco: 60" target is a measure for success at 1000 yds.... maybe iron sights but scoped rifles, thats a waste of ammo.
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  #17  
Old 06-29-2019, 11:30 PM
garandsrus garandsrus is offline
 
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The black is 60” so that it looks the same as all the other targets when looking through open sights. However, the 10 ring is 20”, or 2 minutes. The X ring is 10” or 1 minute of angle. Here’s a pic: https://images.app.goo.gl/ucCaeKvxYjmVenVW8

Here are the scoring ring dimensions:
4.7 800, 900, and 1000 Yard Target
(a) NRANo.LR-
Aiming Black (inches)
Xring ....... 10.00
10ring....... 20.00
9ring........ 30.00
8ring........ 44.00

Rings in White
(inches)
7ring.......... 60.00
6 area . . . 72x72 square

Keep in mind that most of the shooting events at 800-1000 yards are shot prone with iron sights and no support for the gun other than your arm and a sling. It is not uncommon to have 5 Minutes of windage correction on the sights, so you are shooting 50” upwind of where you want the bullet to impact the target.

Last edited by garandsrus; 06-29-2019 at 11:43 PM.
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  #18  
Old 06-30-2019, 04:53 AM
ceresco ceresco is offline
 
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Looked it up in the NRA Rule book: The NRA No. LR Target is used for 800,900 and 1000yds. Scoring ring dimensions are as garandsus posted above, however the aiming black is not 60 inches, it is 44 inches (diameter). Good Shooting. ...
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  #19  
Old 06-30-2019, 10:47 AM
WindLogik WindLogik is offline
 
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I played around with carbide expander buttons at one point. It was a solution for a problem I have never had. I use as-shipped sizing buttons and lube each case. My cases are tumbled in walnut. I use Imperial wax, and there is enough residual on the mouth of the case that case mouth lubing is a not issue for me.

For my long range rifles, I expand each case with a mandrel, and then size it down with a bushing die. I lube each case mouth individually to do this. This process has lead to near-perfect concentricity for my handloads. I believe that concentricity has a great affect on long-range precision. I have had miserable concentricity with sizing buttons of all kinds, carbide included, so I don't use those kinds of dies for my long range rifles. For service rifle and vintage rifle, use normal dies with sizing buttons.

This issue with concentricity and sizing buttons is mentioned in the book by Nancy and Mid Tompkins. It's advice worth listening to.

Many of the people on this forum have shot and reloaded for many, many years. Service rifle and Garands are not the only expertise here. Many of the people here (distinguished rifleman, high-masters in several disciplines, accomplished smallbore shooters, etc.) have a lot of wisdom. Many of these shooters enjoy sports like F-class or precision rifle too. Lots of folks here have pet rifles mounted on chassis stocks that are quite accurate. These so-called advanced reloading techniques that some are just-now discovering have been around for decades. Nothing new.

Last edited by WindLogik; 06-30-2019 at 10:58 AM.
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