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  #1  
Old 01-03-2010, 05:38 PM
dbg1 dbg1 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 77
Default Real or fake stock?

Picked up this stock recently and curious as to its authenticity. It has P-J in the slingwell, an Augusta Arsenal rebuild stamp (AAG) on the left side of under the receiver and an non-serif P on the pistol grip. What has me scratching my head is a small crossed cannons cartouche on the right side of the buttsock. I have another P-J stock that I received on a CMP carbine and it doesn't have that cartouche on it. What do you think?

First attempt at attaching pics below:

http://s827.photobucket.com/albums/zz192/first347/
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  #2  
Old 01-03-2010, 06:24 PM
Tanker06 Tanker06 is offline
 
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Posts: 43
Default right side up?

Is the cartouche picture upside down? or is the cartouche?
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  #3  
Old 01-03-2010, 06:25 PM
MhoinNV MhoinNV is offline
 
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Location: Nevada
Posts: 613
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AAG=Augusta Arsenal and the "G" was probably the inspectors mark where the weapon was rebuilt as the "P" sans serrif on the pistol grip behind the trigger guard indicates. The crossed cannons are the final "Ordnance Acceptance Mark" when the carbine was
1st mfg. At first I thought the P-J might be a bad die and the "J" was a "U" which would have made the stock mfg by Pedersen Bros for Underwood but after checking Riesch p.117, "PJ" is listed as a wartime replacement stock but without the "-" between the P & J.
It is probably authentic.
Hope this helps.....
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  #4  
Old 01-03-2010, 06:29 PM
dnikkor dnikkor is offline
 
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Location: Kansas
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Cartouches on the right side of the buttstock are a good thing. Your cartouche looks like an Underwood mark and your P-J could actually be a poorly struck P-U, which is for Pederson Bros Co., Wilton, Conn., who made stocks for.....Underwood.

MhoinNV, I believe that wartime replacement stocks didn't carry cartouches.

Last edited by dnikkor; 01-03-2010 at 06:35 PM.
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  #5  
Old 01-03-2010, 07:06 PM
Jet Fixer Jet Fixer is offline
 
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Location: New Bern, NC
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Don't know much about Underwood cartouches, but the overall appearance seems to indicate that it could be original. That wheel is unusual in respect to the shape of the cannons and flame, but all of the manufacturers used different stamps with varying degrees of details.
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  #6  
Old 01-03-2010, 07:17 PM
abeal abeal is offline
 
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Location: Ohio
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The first think I noticed was the thickness of the wheel in the cross cannons. It is thinner than any that I have seen. I don't have a P-U or P-J stock with a cartouche so I don't have anything to compare to.
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  #7  
Old 01-03-2010, 07:39 PM
jimb jimb is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 260
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Probably Pederson for Jewell Manuf. The cartouche is correct. It is an Ordnance acceptance stamp that was used on spare parts. It is NOT one of the CCs used by any of the manufacturers. You see the same cartouche on the spares made by Jewell. They sometimes appear in the sling well instead of the right side.
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  #8  
Old 01-03-2010, 09:31 PM
E-7Ret. E-7Ret. is offline
 
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Location: Loveland, Ohio
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The rightside crossed cannons SA cartouche is identical to the one on my Inland as far as I can tell. My Inland has a CMP stock I bought from a poster on the CSP whom I know and trust.
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  #9  
Old 01-03-2010, 09:49 PM
dnikkor dnikkor is offline
 
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Location: Kansas
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Going by the drawings on War Baby!, page 315, the cartouche looks like the Underwood sketch. Holding the book upside down makes it easier to see. It also matches my Underwood's cartouche.

The opposite page states: "Carbines which passed final inspection were stamped on the stock by the resident Ordnance inspector to signify that the arm was officially accepted and was thenceforth property of the government." It goes on to describe the "crossed-cannons cartouche".

The cannon cartouches were specific for each manufacturer and applied on acceptance. They were not applied later during rebuild or repair or replacement.

They are probably applied currently in Modesto, CA, however.

E-7Ret, Inland does look real close to it, but if you check out the circle about 4 o'clock, you will see it doesn't touch the cannon like it does in the photo.

Last edited by dnikkor; 01-03-2010 at 09:56 PM.
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  #10  
Old 01-03-2010, 10:21 PM
dbg1 dbg1 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 77
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Thanks all for the input.

Tanker06 - Yes, the cartouche is upside down on the side of the stock.

I believe jimb may be correct but still not sure. I don't believe this to be a lightly struck PU stock since the J is so well defined as you can see in the picture. My other P-J stock that doesn't have the CC may have lost it in its rebuild process??? If you look at the CC picture zoomed in (double click the pic) you can see that the wood grains have split along with the crossed cannons which means they weren't added afterwards. This is what led me to believe it to be either correct or a stock that was faked a while ago. Still open to input. Thanks.
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