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  #11  
Old 01-23-2019, 09:46 AM
dadx3 dadx3 is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Georgia
Posts: 193
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This was directed at CMP/NRA Service Rifle specifically. I have shot a few JCG Matches, and we both shot in a M1 carbine match. I have been following all the developments in the modern military and was planning on trying it out, but luckily did not purchase anything or make any modifications before the rules changes.
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  #12  
Old 01-23-2019, 10:13 AM
dadx3 dadx3 is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Georgia
Posts: 193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talyn1 View Post
#1 - Correct

#2 - I mentioned both (plus both Rule books) since some shooters may think that Service Rifle and MMR are similar since they use the same AR-type platform, albeit with different features.

Plus, in NRA-sanctioned matches a CMP MMR equivalent is labeled a Service Rifle by the NRA according to their terminology if the OP decides to shoot in one of those matches.
I think you are mistaken on this, the NRA service rifle and CMP service rifle are virtually the same.
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  #13  
Old 01-23-2019, 01:44 PM
Talyn1 Talyn1 is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Montana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dadx3 View Post
I think you are mistaken on this, the NRA service rifle and CMP service rifle are virtually the same.
Not at all.

I've stated those similarities on other threads. For NRA match rifles, an M-16 or commercially equivalent, are exempt from the 4.5 trigger pull weight requirement, like the CMP Service Rifle requirement.

Good luck with your shooting.

Regards,
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Last edited by Talyn1; 01-23-2019 at 01:48 PM.
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  #14  
Old 01-23-2019, 02:59 PM
Rootsy Rootsy is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Monroe, Michigan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talyn1 View Post
Not at all.

I've stated those similarities on other threads. For NRA match rifles, an M-16 or commercially equivalent, are exempt from the 4.5 trigger pull weight requirement, like the CMP Service Rifle requirement.

Good luck with your shooting.

Regards,
Service rifles (NRA 3.1 a - e / CMP 4.1, 4.1.1, 4.1.2, 4.1.3, 4.1.4) must have a minimum 4.5# trigger to compete as a service rifle. Period.

If the AR15 /M16 is less than 4.5 but more than 3.5 then it conforms to NRA 3.3 (c) and is considered a match rifle under NRA 3.3.

CMP match rifle (CMP 4.1.5) allows for any trigger weight as long as the trigger functions properly and safely.

Match rifles cannot compete as service rifles.
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  #15  
Old 01-23-2019, 04:39 PM
dw617 dw617 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: MA
Posts: 505
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Op, I have a creedmoor canvas jacket for sale in the WTS section. If going to a junior, price reduced. Size 40 right hand shooter. It's not a hardback, but it beats only wearing a sweatshirt.
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  #16  
Old 01-23-2019, 09:35 PM
canes7 canes7 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 2,380
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Now the waters are muddied even further with the term “match rifle”.

It took me a full season to truly understand the differences in service rifle, match rifle, games, CMP, NRA and all the rest of it.

I do not think either sanctioning body does themselves any favors in the way they advertise (or not advertise) their matches. You have the games matches that are all shot at 200 yards, or simulated. Then you have the HP matches shot at full distance, or simulated. For many its a lot to get up the gumption to just shoot a games match let alone a true full distance match.

I love both disciplines. I participate in both and I am a match director for both. I see way too many people get involved and have no clue of all their options. HP is fun, it classical marksmanship at its best. With just a little more effort on the part of the sanctioning bodies you can get people where they want to be from the get go.

Perhaps it’s time that the games clinics and the HP clinics roll themselves up into one. This way the intake of new shooters will get exposure to all options. They can see that shooting a 600 yard target is not much harder than shooting a 200 yard target.
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  #17  
Old 01-23-2019, 10:31 PM
WindLogik WindLogik is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Washington State
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canes7 View Post
Perhaps it’s time that the games clinics and the HP clinics roll themselves up into one. This way the intake of new shooters will get exposure to all options. They can see that shooting a 600 yard target is not much harder than shooting a 200 yard target.
Where I used to live, they tried to do that, and it worked fairly well. The HP circuit would pick up one or few shooters per year and that would compensate for attrition. I think the biggest problem with service rifle (full distance marksmanship) is that the gear needs to be right and it's very hard to understand and then buy. Also, with a lot of new shooters, their is a typical ego problem that takes about a summer's worth of marksman scores to pare down. I see this over and over: folks buy thousands of dollars worth of the wrong gear without going to matches or talking to the state director. This mistake generally takes a couple of years to deal with.

It was my understanding the MMR was a category for things other than Springfields and Garands. It seems that has evolved into nearly a "whatever you want" category. It makes the matter confusing, and I don't think sanctioned games matches are shot in many places.
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  #18  
Old 01-24-2019, 11:39 AM
Rootsy Rootsy is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Monroe, Michigan
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I am Match Director for 3P HP programs at two clubs. One is a 200 yd range and I run a mixed GSM & HP match. The other is a 600 yd range and we operate full course traditional 3P HP only.

For my mixed matches I run a JCG Course A match for all legal rifles. If your rifle is not legal or you chose to shoot it I run a President’s course at the same time. All intermixed. Games match shooters fire prone first. HP shooters fire standing. Everyone fires rapid prone at the same time to the games time (80 sec). The last stage is standing or prone respectively. Shooters are responsible for putting up the correct targets on their frame for each stage. By doing it this way it allows for everyone to have a common sighting period on a common size target (SR) and then they can just paste it up and roll right into the first stage without having to hang a new target.

Participation remains good and it is a low pressure atmosphere for traditional games only shooters to branch out. We have picked up a number of new HP shooters this way over the past few years. at first most are apprehensive about shooting XTC but I and a number of other experienced shooters take them under our wings and get them sucked in. We loan equipment, coach, provide advice and go so far as to help them build rifles appropriate for the game.

We plan to hold a HP clinic this spring and I am currently working on the presentation for the classroom portion. This will be a 2 day deal. Day 1 classroom, on range dry fire and then live fire practice. Day 2 is an open to the public 80 shot walk and paste HP match. If you paid for and attended day 1 your match fee is taken care of for the day 2.
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Last edited by Rootsy; 01-24-2019 at 11:42 AM.
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