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Old 04-10-2017, 08:03 PM
Archon Archon is offline
 
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Default CMP As-Issued 1911: Barrel Replacement

I have an 1943 Remington Rand M1911A1 with a High Standard barrel that shoots pizza pan sized groups at 25 yards. I want to set this barrel and bushing aside and fit replacements.

According to the rules, I can replace the barrel with one of the same length but does not mention quality.

Would installing a "match grade" barrel break the rules for this class?
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Old 04-10-2017, 08:42 PM
CDRT CDRT is online now
 
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Yes, it would be breaking the rules.

7.2.2
The pistol must be in as-issued or "factory stock" condition with standard grips and non-adjustable sights with specialized match conditioning or accurizing features.
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Old 04-10-2017, 11:33 PM
Archon Archon is offline
 
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7.2.2 also allows for: Rebarrelling with a barrel of the same type and length as the M1911 barrel is permitted.

I put match grade in quotes because not every quality barrel is marked "match".

It would seem that a barrel with the same ramp profile, length, and non-stainless steel construction would be a suitable replacement.
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Old 04-10-2017, 11:34 PM
rickgman rickgman is offline
 
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Archon, I have found WWII era M1911A1's often have excessive barrel OD to bushing ID clearance. A clearance of 0.007" is not uncommon. New production 1911's often have 0.001" to 0.002" clearance. Simply get a new standard barrel and bushing and you will probably be OK. Another option is to measure the OD of your barrel and buy an undersized bushing and have it reamed out to the proper size to fit your barrel. Rick
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Old 04-11-2017, 10:21 AM
CDRT CDRT is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickgman View Post
Archon, I have found WWII era M1911A1's often have excessive barrel OD to bushing ID clearance. A clearance of 0.007" is not uncommon. New production 1911's often have 0.001" to 0.002" clearance. Simply get a new standard barrel and bushing and you will probably be OK. Another option is to measure the OD of your barrel and buy an undersized bushing and have it reamed out to the proper size to fit your barrel. Rick
I hate to nitpick on this, but having an oversize bushing fitted to the barrel would be "accurizing" under the rules and not allowed. The simple solution is to buy a GI spec barrel and bushing and see if that helps. My out-of-the box, Auto Ordnance keeps them inside the 9 ring at 25 yards, which is good enough for this match.
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Old 04-11-2017, 10:47 AM
rickgman rickgman is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDRT View Post
I hate to nitpick on this, but having an oversize bushing fitted to the barrel would be "accurizing" under the rules and not allowed. The simple solution is to buy a GI spec barrel and bushing and see if that helps. My out-of-the box, Auto Ordnance keeps them inside the 9 ring at 25 yards, which is good enough for this match.
CDRT, you might be right but I feel that as long as you do not fit the bushing tighter than the minimum production spec, it really isn't technically accurizing. I might be wrong. Either way, buying a GI spec barrel and bushing would probably be the easiest course of action since it can be done without having to rely on any machining. Rick
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Old 04-11-2017, 12:21 PM
CDRT CDRT is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickgman View Post
CDRT, you might be right but I feel that as long as you do not fit the bushing tighter than the minimum production spec, it really isn't technically accurizing. I might be wrong. Either way, buying a GI spec barrel and bushing would probably be the easiest course of action since it can be done without having to rely on any machining. Rick
The rules call for stock parts; any modifications, such as using an undersized bushing that needs to be fitted by a gunsmith, would be contrary to the rules. Again, we are talking about a match that is shot at 25 yards, not 50 yards like the EIC or NRA matches. A GI spec barrel and bushing should suffice.
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Old 04-11-2017, 01:11 PM
Archon Archon is offline
 
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Here's where I think the class needs to be split between truly "as-issued" military surplus guns like mine vs new production copies like the Springfield GI. There's no way a surplus "as-issued" gun will be as tight as a recently made commercial copy without replacing parts. Even doing so, there seems to be quite a bit of interpretation of the rules as to what is allowed.

If I had access to a warehouse of parts, I could scrounge around until I found a barrel and bushing that fit my gun tightly and qualify as "as-issued" where fitting new replacements to meet the same tolerances is frowned upon.
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Old 04-11-2017, 09:12 PM
cranehunter cranehunter is online now
 
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Acurizing and carefull assembly are synonymous.
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Old 04-12-2017, 04:30 PM
bpm32 bpm32 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon View Post
Here's where I think the class needs to be split between truly "as-issued" military surplus guns like mine vs new production copies like the Springfield GI. There's no way a surplus "as-issued" gun will be as tight as a recently made commercial copy without replacing parts. Even doing so, there seems to be quite a bit of interpretation of the rules as to what is allowed.

If I had access to a warehouse of parts, I could scrounge around until I found a barrel and bushing that fit my gun tightly and qualify as "as-issued" where fitting new replacements to meet the same tolerances is frowned upon.
Yeah, the Bullseye community went through something similar to this when the Distinguished Revolver matches started. Little things like reaming the chambers to equal size, fixing end shake, etc. were thought to be bad form by some. It would be impossible to tell after the fact. Technically, you could get a really well-built revolver out of S&W or a crappy one. If you were stuck with a bad revolver that had issues out of the box, then what? If you bought a used gun, how would you know if it had been lightly accurized?

Rules aside, I would just generally stick to the spirit of honest competition. I personally would not find it objectionable for someone to swap out a bushing on a GI pistol, provided he used a USGI part. Then again, I would also consider a 1911 that couldn't hold the black at 25 yards to be fundamentally broken in some way.

Even with brand new pistols, I've seen a few Springfields that had terrible accuracy, but also some with awesome accuracy (a lot of times locking up on an improperly-fit link).
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