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  #11  
Old 06-14-2017, 10:31 PM
ceresco ceresco is offline
 
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My partner shot the high individual score last year. He did it with a beat up Finn MN and a Chinese replica scope. Not sure of the power, but he needed me to call his 600yd shot locations with my 8X. Take that for what it's worth. ....and 8X is the max allowed. Good Shooting. ... ...
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  #12  
Old 06-15-2017, 10:29 AM
milprileb milprileb is offline
 
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Location: Stafford, Virginia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amadeus76 View Post
The Weaver's solid... The HiLux/Malcolm will have better glass and be better sealed, but for all practical purposes in vintage matches the Weaver will be enough. That said, at 600yds all 2.5x scopes will show their limitations and be easily beat out by anyone shooting a 1903a1 with a USMC 10x scope.

All that aside, I have a HiLux/Malcolm M82G2 and am very pleased with it. But I went that route because I wanted as historically accurate a reproduction as I could get.
I have the Lyman Alaskan on my A4 clone / repro Gibbs rifle and while its a better field of view, I like the M82 G4 current Chicom scope glass better which was a rude awakening but at 600 yds, I could see the bullseye better. 69 yr old eyes so if it looked better...it was better.

While I agree a solid A4 clone should shoot 1 MOA, with proper hand load , mine shoots sub MOA and many others do as well. Its not that 2.5 power optics are flawed...they are not, I shoot my rifle to 1000 yds here at the Quantico sniper matches, its just that anyone with a 8x Unertl has the edge to success and scores the past years at Camp Perry prove that.

So, getting beat by a 1903 Model 1941 Sniper Rifle shooter is the norm but I can live with that as its a legtimate WWII sniper rifle. Now you beat me with a 03 or 03A4 with a Weaver K2.5 (which CMP says is "legal") then you just beat me with a scoped surplus rifle with fantasy civilian scope and that is not VINTAGE SNIPER.

The Vintage Sniper Match at Camp Perry has been diluted to become a fun match and is not a Vintage Sniper match. This is unfair to all who come with a real WWII sniper rifle or a true replica of a WWII sniper rifle .

Sad note.
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  #13  
Old 06-15-2017, 12:08 PM
ceresco ceresco is offline
 
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I understand the preference for genuine equipment, but there are practical considerations relating to cost and availability. None of us agree completely with the CMP rules, but it is their game and we can play by their rules with no apologies. I suspect that 8X scopes win, in part, because the better shooters use them.....not because they offer much advantage. My shooting partner beat everyone with a scope that couldn't be over 4X. Years ago, I was riding motorcycles in Enduro competition. The dominant rider (Burleson) rode a Husqvarna, so a lot of other good riders bought them. The joke then was he could have rode a Vespa and won. Not quite true, but you get the message. Good Shooting. ...
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  #14  
Old 06-15-2017, 04:29 PM
smag smag is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Clarksville, TN
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If yer going low power 2.5x, hard to beat a 2 groove NOS barrel. If gun is built by someone that knows his 03, a3, a4, 17, M-1's. All those gibbs creedmores rocks are just crush fit barrels. They shoot darn good. Stock fit is big.
I see guys with iron site 03a3's at any range that can tear my my best scoped targets at any range.

They should just group Army A4's to shoot against each other and USMC 03's as well. Scope power advantage is just to much to overcome IMHO.
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  #15  
Old 06-15-2017, 07:35 PM
amadeus76 amadeus76 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceresco View Post

I suspect that 8X scopes win, in part, because the better shooters use them.....not because they offer much advantage. My shooting partner beat everyone with a scope that couldn't be over 4X.
When competing against 8x scopes, there's a big difference between a 4x scope and a 2.5x scope. At 600 yards many will just barely be able to see the target, and most won't get the consistent accuracy that someone shooting with an 8x will.
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  #16  
Old 06-15-2017, 07:37 PM
amadeus76 amadeus76 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smag View Post

They should just group Army A4's to shoot against each other and USMC 03's as well. Scope power advantage is just to much to overcome IMHO.
Couldn't agree more...
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  #17  
Old 06-16-2017, 05:02 PM
motorcop motorcop is offline
 
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Location: Southeast Wisconsin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smag View Post
If yer going low power 2.5x, hard to beat a 2 groove NOS barrel. If gun is built by someone that knows his 03, a3, a4, 17, M-1's. All those gibbs creedmores rocks are just crush fit barrels. They shoot darn good. Stock fit is big.
I see guys with iron site 03a3's at any range that can tear my my best scoped targets at any range.

They should just group Army A4's to shoot against each other and USMC 03's as well. Scope power advantage is just to much to overcome IMHO.
Kinda like an iron sight shooter having to compete against a shooter with an optic. Advantage will always go to the optic shooter. Also reminds me of the off handed advantage of someone shooting an 03A3 that closes up the rear sight aperture. It wasn't done to service rifles in the time frame they were issued rifles, so why is it okay now? Yeah I know, I know, anything to keep the big guys in the hunt.

Rick H.
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  #18  
Old 07-13-2017, 08:03 PM
drmsparks drmsparks is offline
 
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Location: Maryland, people republic of
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Can you explain closing the aperature?
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  #19  
Old 07-13-2017, 09:17 PM
smag smag is offline
 
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Location: Clarksville, TN
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Yeah, when yer getting stomped by a shooter of equal competence with irons. Yer, prolly getting Xed out by shooter with a rear aperture thats been closed up and made smaller. Legal too. Or, he's just a High master and you are not?
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  #20  
Old 07-14-2017, 08:52 AM
milprileb milprileb is offline
 
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Location: Stafford, Virginia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amadeus76 View Post
When competing against 8x scopes, there's a big difference between a 4x scope and a 2.5x scope. At 600 yards many will just barely be able to see the target, and most won't get the consistent accuracy that someone shooting with an 8x will.
This is what I experience. If you look at who wins these matches year after year at Camp Perry, its not those with 2.5 optics on the 03A4 (real or repro).

That said... its definitely the case you are seriously at a disadvantage at 800 and 1000 yds as we do this match at Quantico. For scores...the 8x optic on that M1941 USMC sniper is a real advantage.

Now...if it were hits on a man size E silhouetted...just hits, then the O3A4 vs USMC M1941 sniper rifles become a level playing field, the 2.5 optic will hold a man at 1000 yds quite well . Sure , you got to work harder to do so than the guy with 8x optic but you can do it and give those 8x guys a hard time.
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