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  #11  
Old 02-19-2015, 10:37 AM
ceresco ceresco is offline
 
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The MM class could and should be as good as the other CMP matches, but the inclusion of the AR15 has created a number of problems. All of these could be solved with a bit of effort on CMPs part, but sadly the current edition of the rule book is no better than last year. Splitting the ARs from everything else just muddied the waters more. Local clubs haven't a clue on how to manage ARs and the MM class. I am seeing many NM ARs shooting up the SR1 ten ring to the delight of their owners. We have a triple order of SARCO M4?? kits in to build and I have no idea if they will be (truly) MM legal. Good Shooting....
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  #12  
Old 02-19-2015, 10:42 AM
missilegeek missilegeek is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceresco View Post
The MM class could and should be as good as the other CMP matches, but the inclusion of the AR15 has created a number of problems. All of these could be solved with a bit of effort on CMPs part, but sadly the current edition of the rule book is no better than last year. Splitting the ARs from everything else just muddied the waters more. Local clubs haven't a clue on how to manage ARs and the MM class. I am seeing many NM ARs shooting up the SR1 ten ring to the delight of their owners. We have a triple order of SARCO M4?? kits in to build and I have no idea if they will be (truly) MM legal. Good Shooting....
Recent CMP rule changes make me appreciate the NRA more.....
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  #13  
Old 02-19-2015, 02:26 PM
Herzo Herzo is offline
 
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A friend and I are going to Butner (first time) and decided that we would try the MM since there is no reason to go and not shoot every competition that we can. We decided that the only rifles that we had that would make the rules and weight are our M4geries.

Wish us luck!!!
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  #14  
Old 02-19-2015, 02:54 PM
NEWGUY556 NEWGUY556 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herzo View Post
A friend and I are going to Butner (first time) and decided that we would try the MM since there is no reason to go and not shoot every competition that we can. We decided that the only rifles that we had that would make the rules and weight are our M4geries.

Wish us luck!!!
I shot an M4 A2 at the Western Games last year. Just watch your sling tension, and figure out exactly where you want the collapsible stock set before inspection. They tape it in one position and you have to leave it.
Oh and offhand was really fun with the short light little thing. Moves around twice as fast as any other gun I shoot.
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  #15  
Old 02-19-2015, 05:21 PM
Herzo Herzo is offline
 
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There does seem to be a little difference between my M4gerie (A4) and my 13.5# NM - go figure!
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  #16  
Old 02-19-2015, 07:18 PM
Greg Ficklin Greg Ficklin is offline
 
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If you wanted to build the very best MM AR it would be a 20" 1 in 7 with a quad rail on an A4 upper, and what ever stock you need to make weight. This will perform exactly as a NM AR would. Use a Geiselle HS service trigger. (Having a nice trigger that will pick up 4.5 pounds isn't accurizing, but pinning the rear sight is). There really isn't any accurizing to be done with an AR other than pinning the sights and adding weight to taste. The allowance of the quad rail makes the MM legal gun every bit as capable as the NM XTC service rifle when the sling swivel is attached to the rail per the rules. This match wasn't made for the seasoned XTC competitor. It was made as a starting place for people with the many incarnations of the most popular rifle in a America to discover competitive shooting and fundamentals of military marksmanship. To allow the NM rifle would be giving an open invitation for people to complain when a seasoned well equipped XTC competitor wins the match. They cannot use their XTC service rifle, not because of an inherent advantage, but because it would seem that there was one. Most wouldn't take into consideration their NRA Master classification or DR badge, because many in the games matches are just starting out and have no idea what those are. Just like the .308 ruling in the JCG, if .308 were allowed, then eventually the .308 would outnumber the 30/06's on the line because they "believe" it is better. The MM rules allow the new shooter to bring what he has and grow the community. The seasoned NM competitor with the DR badge, and Master or higher classification knows he can build a MM rifle that will perform just as well as his XTC gun at 200 yards, win the match because he knows what he is doing, and no one can cry that he was using a NM rifle.
The rules were made to help you, not confuse you. Just do what it says and learn to shoot on your feet. You will never be beaten by better rifles, only better shooters.
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  #17  
Old 02-21-2015, 10:39 AM
alpha sierra alpha sierra is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GGaskill View Post
They are supposed to be combat weapons, not National Match target rifles.

And I think you can have a quad rail only on an M4 type.
That's your opinion. The rules do not say anything of the sort.

All Modern Military Rifles must comply with the following general requirements:

x The exterior configuration of the rifle must be the similar to that of the original military or military-type rifle.
Similar does not mean exactly the same. So external variations like a quad rail handguards are OK

x The trigger pull may not be less than 4.5 lbs.
This does not mean the trigger must be non-adjustable. It means the trigger (whatever trigger you use) had to pick up a 4.5 lb weight without tripping.

x Magazines may have a capacity of no more than 30 rounds and may not be used to support the rifle in a firing position where the magazine rests on the ground or arm.

x Rifles must be standard production or as-issued rifles with no special accurizing or match conditioning.
This rule is so vague it is unenforceable, but like someone said, probably does not allow pinning the rear sight.

x Sights must be military-type, non-optical sights; back-up (BUS) sights may be used; adjustable apertures, nterchangeable inserts or lens inserts of any type are prohibited.
Pretty clear in what it prohibits. Notice that it does not prohibit changing the windage and elevation adjustments to finer adjustments.

x Butt-stocks may be fixed or telescoping/collapsing, however, if the rifle has a telescoping/collapsing butt-stock, it must be fixed so that its length of pull is not changed during an entire course of fire.

5.2.3 U.S. Modern Sporting Rifles, Class A
Category A Modern Sporting Rifles must comply with these additional requirements:

x Rifles based on the M-16 or AR design and manufactured by a USA manufacturer must be used.
Heckler & Koch and SIG rifles are made in the USA.......good to go. "Based on the M-16 design" means to me that both rifles and carbines are allowed

x Weight may not exceed 7.75 lbs.

x No special accurizing is permitted except that fixed sling swivels may be attached to the forward end of the handguard.
This means you can use a free floating quad rail handguard OR a NM free float tube under std handguards IF you can make weight.

x The rifle must be chambered for the 5.56x45 mm or .223 Remington cartridge.

Last edited by alpha sierra; 02-21-2015 at 10:51 AM.
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  #18  
Old 02-21-2015, 10:45 AM
Herzo Herzo is offline
 
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It would be good to get a ruling on the 20" quad rail.
Since the only rifle that I have that will make weight is an M4gery, I'll go with it.
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  #19  
Old 02-21-2015, 11:41 AM
alpha sierra alpha sierra is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herzo View Post
It would be good to get a ruling on the 20" quad rail.
Why is there a need for a ruling? What is not specifically prohibited is permitted.
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  #20  
Old 02-21-2015, 05:28 PM
3StrikesNC 3StrikesNC is offline
 
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A "ruling" is better safe than sorry. It's nice to have a memo when someone checking in your rifle tells you the contrary.

If you've ever been dq'd "in-line", you'd understand.

My M4 was dq'd for an aftermarket trigger the first year of MM. I had to change it out before the match to get it competition.
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