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  #11  
Old 03-07-2017, 11:43 PM
HighpowerRifleBrony HighpowerRifleBrony is offline
 
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Does anyone have new data and pics? From say, 2013 or newer?

Of the relatively few once-fired "small letter" FC I've used, I had more issues with ICHS than the primer pockets loosening, but I've had the same problem with LC. If the good ones make it to 5 firings before the necks split, I'll be happy.
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  #12  
Old 03-08-2017, 10:44 AM
colomountain colomountain is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighpowerRifleBrony View Post
Does anyone have new data and pics? From say, 2013 or newer?

Of the relatively few once-fired "small letter" FC I've used, I had more issues with ICHS than the primer pockets loosening, but I've had the same problem with LC. If the good ones make it to 5 firings before the necks split, I'll be happy.
I have been away from reloading for a while. Beside the Chevy-Ford preferences, I've been hearing recently about "soft brass" especially relating to Federal manufacture. However, neck splits may be caused by brittle brass and actually may need annealing which make the brass "softer" (less brittle). I know there are very experienced folks out there familiar with heat treating (some are engineers, chemists, metallurgists, etc.). Is this a recent development. If so, about when did this start?

Anyway, I have heard about this from the 223/556 crowd. How does this relate to the 308/7.62 and 30-06 new manufacture Federal ammo/brass?

I quit buying Winchester ammo a few years ago because of unreliability issues.
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  #13  
Old 03-08-2017, 02:28 PM
FX41 FX41 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colomountain View Post
I have been away from reloading for a while. Beside the Chevy-Ford preferences, I've been hearing recently about "soft brass" especially relating to Federal manufacture. However, neck splits may be caused by brittle brass and actually may need annealing which make the brass "softer" (less brittle). I know there are very experienced folks out there familiar with heat treating (some are engineers, chemists, metallurgists, etc.). Is this a recent development. If so, about when did this start?

Anyway, I have heard about this from the 223/556 crowd. How does this relate to the 308/7.62 and 30-06 new manufacture Federal ammo/brass?

I quit buying Winchester ammo a few years ago because of unreliability issues.
I am no engineer, chemist, or metallurgist, but annealing the brass after sizing (or in the case of new manufacture, forming) will re-align the molecules, beat out of shape by the forming or sizing of the object, in this case a rifle cartridge case. It doesn't make them softer per se, but does make it more pliable before failure.
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  #14  
Old 03-12-2017, 05:08 AM
milprileb milprileb is offline
 
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ANNEAL AFTER SIZING?? You sure about that ?
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  #15  
Old 03-12-2017, 07:15 AM
FX41 FX41 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by milprileb View Post
ANNEAL AFTER SIZING?? You sure about that ?
No.

edit: Yes, I am sure.

Last edited by FX41; 03-12-2017 at 02:19 PM.
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  #16  
Old 03-12-2017, 12:59 PM
captron captron is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FX41 View Post
I am no engineer, chemist, or metallurgist, but annealing the brass after sizing (or in the case of new manufacture, forming) will re-align the molecules, beat out of shape by the forming or sizing of the object, in this case a rifle cartridge case. It doesn't make them softer per se, but does make it more pliable before failure.
Annealing is a viable process for preparing brass and should be done after "reworking'' but is not required before every reload. Reworking in this example is just resizing the case. Every time you rework metal a condition slowly develops that is referred to as "work hardening". Annealing is a method of stress relieving metal to relieve any work hardening that has developed thus returning it to its original molecular structure. If you have ever bent a wire back and forth in order to break it, then you understand "work hardening". So, annealing after resizing is (I believe) relevant. I am no expert, but I got more reloads from annealed brass than from brass that I didn't anneal. From what I understand??, all larger caliber brass has already been annealed once when new. Supposedly, a factory polishing process removes the brass discoloration from around the neck?? I question this?? BTW, annealing is NOT turning brass red from heat!!
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  #17  
Old 03-12-2017, 02:20 PM
FX41 FX41 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captron View Post
Annealing is a viable process for preparing brass and should be done after "reworking'' but is not required before every reload. Reworking in this example is just resizing the case. Every time you rework metal a condition slowly develops that is referred to as "work hardening". Annealing is a method of stress relieving metal to relieve any work hardening that has developed thus returning it to its original molecular structure. If you have ever bent a wire back and forth in order to break it, then you understand "work hardening". So, annealing after resizing is (I believe) relevant. I am no expert, but I got more reloads from annealed brass than from brass that I didn't anneal. From what I understand??, all larger caliber brass has already been annealed once when new. Supposedly, a factory polishing process removes the brass discoloration from around the neck?? I question this?? BTW, annealing is NOT turning brass red from heat!!
I don't know about all factory ammo, but anything purchased by the military IS annealed, new. They don't, however, post anneal polish them.
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  #18  
Old 03-12-2017, 02:30 PM
lapriester lapriester is online now
 
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Since 223 and 5.56 cases begin their life exactly the same size sizing with 223 Remington dies (you can't even buy 5.56X45 dies) sizes them back to their original size. Avoid Federal brass. Most of it has problems you don't want to deal with. Some would say that you need to modify your loads down to use 5.56 brass because it's thicker. Unless you are loading all the way to max that is generally not necessary. No matter whether I'm using commercial Remington brass or LC or WCC I load them the same and see no difference in pressure signs or accuracy.

As far as annealing? It's just simply not worth the trouble for brass you can pick up at any range by the hundreds/thousands or sometimes buy for as little as $50-$60 per thousand for LC. $100 fully prepped. At those prices you reload 3-4 times and throw it away if you choose. I recently bought 1000 pieces of pulled, primed LC brass for $90 per thousand...shipped. I've never annealed a piece of brass in my life in any caliber. It can be an important process for serious match shooter but for general shooters and reloaders? Why?
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  #19  
Old 03-12-2017, 02:46 PM
bigedp51 bigedp51 is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lapriester View Post
Since 223 and 5.56 cases begin their life exactly the same size sizing with 223 Remington dies (you can't even buy 5.56X45 dies) sizes them back to their original size.
lapriester

RCBS now labels their dies just like a car speedometer with MPH on the top and KPH on the bottom. (for the metric impaired)

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  #20  
Old 03-12-2017, 03:49 PM
lapriester lapriester is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigedp51 View Post
lapriester

RCBS now labels their dies just like a car speedometer with MPH on the top and KPH on the bottom. (for the metric impaired)

Same dies for the exact same case. Except they only label the AR series dies that way which are small base dies with a taper crimp seating die included. BTW, neither of which is required for loading 223/5.56 ammo for any shooting platform except maybe a commercial semi auto or pump gun.

To my knowledge regular RCBS dies are only labeled 223 Remington (REM actually), like Lyman, Redding and Hornady.

Last edited by lapriester; 03-12-2017 at 03:52 PM.
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