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  #1  
Old 01-24-2019, 01:56 AM
brassrat brassrat is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southern Indiana
Posts: 368
Default Sa markings 1911a1

SA MARKINGS 1911A1

O.K. so my 1911A1 arrived the other day and I am trying to decipher all of its markings. I have some specific questions about the “SA” markings on the receiver.

The Poyer book 3rd edition page 312 says the “SA” stamp indicates it was rebuilt at Springfield Armory post 1937 and then goes on to say that Springfield Armory rebuilt 1911A1’s for National Match pistols through the 1950’s & 1960’s.

The “coolgunsite” has some images that show this marking along with some text that indicates this “SA” mark is seldom seen on NON-NATIONAL MATCH (normal military pistols) see link below:

http://coolgunsite.com/images/rebuild/wpe1.jpg

A quick search of the CMP Forum and internet reveals nearly every reference to 1911A1 pistols with this “SA” marking are associated with National Match pistols.

This leads me wonder if the “SA” mark on my pistol make it some what unique. My question is, just how unique is this marking, both in terms of this shipment of 8000 CMP pistols, as well as the 1911 collector community at large? How many others have non-National Match “SA” marked 1911A1’s?

In addition to this it appears my pistol was rebuilt again at Anniston Army Depot in November of 1975 as evident by the (ANAD 11 75) stamp.

In addition to this it appears my pistol may have also been repaired or rebuilt again at some point in its life by Colt. According to the Poyer book 3rd edition page 311, pistols repaired or rebuilt at Colt bear a “K” stamped on the right side of the trigger guard. Can anyone confirm “K” stamped on the right side of my trigger guard looks right for this?

I am curious how many others have 1911A1’s that have been rebuilt multiple times like this?

I have not had it apart yet to see what markings may be inside, but I can see it is a 1944 Remington-Rand receiver with a Colt slide. I have not looked up the barrel markings yet to even know what it is. If anyone can identify the barrel, please advise.

http://s1281.photobucket.com/user/br...tml?sort=3&o=1

http://s1281.photobucket.com/user/br...tml?sort=3&o=2

http://s1281.photobucket.com/user/br...tml?sort=3&o=3

http://s1281.photobucket.com/user/br...tml?sort=3&o=4

http://s1281.photobucket.com/user/br...tml?sort=3&o=0
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  #2  
Old 01-24-2019, 02:34 AM
drslash drslash is offline
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Marion, Iowa
Posts: 190
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I am far from an expert and I only offer what I have read casually over the years about 1911A1s.

I am doubting that this is a national match pistol with the standard issue sights. I defer to anyone more experienced about this subject.

As far as your barrel goes, my CMP 1911 has very similar marks. When you field strip your pistol look at the markings on the barrel lug. Mine is marked TZ which indicates a replacement barrel from IWI - Israel Weapons Industries.
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  #3  
Old 01-24-2019, 04:27 AM
bandofM1 bandofM1 is offline
 
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Location: ohio
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Rebuild 2 or maybe 3 x.
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  #4  
Old 01-24-2019, 11:21 AM
Quicksilvergoat Quicksilvergoat is offline
 
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Location: DFW Metroplex
Posts: 596
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It’s not impossible for it to have been rebuilt three times. The SA stamp isn’t that rare really. You see a lot of National Match pistols with it but, there are plenty of standard pistols with it as well. The problem with the K is Colt used a variety of letters over the years as inspection stamps. I would like to see the source material Poyer used for that conclusion.
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  #5  
Old 01-24-2019, 01:27 PM
weimar_police weimar_police is offline
 
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Location: Near Spokane, WA
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also and no expert, but know a bit - a rebuild doesn't always involve stripping down, sand-blasting and re-park - it can just be replace a slide or replace a trigger and it gets stamped (or not) and sent back to the unit.
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  #6  
Old 01-24-2019, 05:23 PM
bandofM1 bandofM1 is offline
 
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Let's not forget some rebuilds were not marked at all.
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  #7  
Old 01-24-2019, 06:28 PM
DDRode DDRode is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Benson, MN
Posts: 2,031
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brassrat View Post
SA MARKINGS 1911A1

O.K. so my 1911A1 arrived the other day and I am trying to decipher all of its markings. I have some specific questions about the “SA” markings on the receiver.

The Poyer book 3rd edition page 312 says the “SA” stamp indicates it was rebuilt at Springfield Armory post 1937 and then goes on to say that Springfield Armory rebuilt 1911A1’s for National Match pistols through the 1950’s & 1960’s.

A quick search of the CMP Forum and internet reveals nearly every reference to 1911A1 pistols with this “SA” marking are associated with National Match pistols.

This leads me wonder if the “SA” mark on my pistol make it some what unique. My question is, just how unique is this marking, both in terms of this shipment of 8000 CMP pistols, as well as the 1911 collector community at large? How many others have non-National Match “SA” marked 1911A1’s?

In addition to this it appears my pistol may have also been repaired or rebuilt again at some point in its life by Colt. According to the Poyer book 3rd edition page 311, pistols repaired or rebuilt at Colt bear a “K” stamped on the right side of the trigger guard. Can anyone confirm “K” stamped on the right side of my trigger guard looks right for this?
From CLAWSON (3rd Edition)...

Page 110:

"Beginning in the late 1930s, arsenal overhauled pistols were sometimes marked with the initials of the repair facility. These initials were normally stamped on the left side of the receiver, although SA marks were generally on the right side. Overhaul marks were not defined in Army regulations, so variations may exist depending on the policy of each arsenal."

Page 134 (APPENDIX D):

"Colt pistols and revolvers were stamped with a repair mark when repairs were made during and after manufacture.This was the same mark regardless of the work performed, whether simply repaired or completely overhauled. Most of the defects were discovered during assembly or final inspection. Firearms that were returned to Colt at a later date for repair or refurbishing were also stamped with a repair mark."

"The following marks were not used solely as a repair mark, as they were sometimes used for standard inspection marks. Repair marks are summarized below:

K - with serifs, the most common repair/overhaul mark.

Usually located on the upper right side of the trigger guard on military and commercial pistols."


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Last edited by DDRode; 01-25-2019 at 08:41 PM.
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  #8  
Old 01-24-2019, 09:55 PM
RHScott RHScott is offline
 
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Location: NC
Posts: 137
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Not overly rare.
Food for thought, could have been a NM pistol at one point and upon rebild it was returned to Service Grade standards. Who knows.
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  #9  
Old 01-29-2019, 08:23 PM
rwmartin58 rwmartin58 is offline
 
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Poyer, The Model 1911 and Model 1911A, 3rd addition, page 313, Table 6-11, SA = Springfield Armory, Repair Facility....




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