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  #11  
Old 08-02-2013, 09:42 AM
Popcop Popcop is offline
 
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Look at the stock oiler cut out on thier 'new manufacture carbines. It is incorrect. The cut out is too wide and the length is too short. That is the DuPage stock trade mark.
The oiler cut out is also further away from the butt of the stock than the GI cut.
In thier defense, the receivers are milled to GI blueprint spec. I am getting one soon.
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  #12  
Old 08-02-2013, 10:14 AM
MajWatz MajWatz is offline
 
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Originally Posted by drwitte View Post
Wow, this is just ethically wrong. I don't care if they bought the Rock-Ola name. It sounds like they are trying to push off their new carbines as the rebirth of the Rock-Ola carbine today. Except, they are not made by Rock-Ola! Very sad... Now we will have to start watching for these things as they start showing up in USGI stocks...

Colt and S&W were both sold out to new owners and so was Winchester and I'm sure several others but they all use the original names of these once great firearms companies. I was a great fan of S&W and own several from the early '80s but will never buy one today with the hole drilled in the frame for the darn safety that S&W now puts on its handguns. Saf-T-Hammer bought S&W around 2001. Not sure who owns it now. Zilkha & Co bought Colt in 1994. Not sure if still owned but names get passed on of famous firearms makers over and over.

Another example of famous names used today and not being the original company are Indian Motorcycles and Harley Davidson.

How about the new Rock-Ola jukeboxes being produced today. In the early 1990s Rock-Ola sold the business to Glenn Streeter, owner of Antique Apparatus Co. In Torrance, Calif.

There are probably hundreds if not thousands of companies today in the U.S. that use original named products under new ownership/ production companies. Why should the M1 carbine be the exception.

Most of our cars made today in the U.S. under their original names have been sold over several times. Buy a Chrysler or Dodge today and you bought a Fiat.
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  #13  
Old 08-02-2013, 11:38 AM
missilegeek missilegeek is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drwitte View Post
Wow, this is just ethically wrong. I don't care if they bought the Rock-Ola name. It sounds like they are trying to push off their new carbines as the rebirth of the Rock-Ola carbine today. Except, they are not made by Rock-Ola! Very sad... Now we will have to start watching for these things as they start showing up in USGI stocks...
Not much different than Springfield Armory, Inc. or the current Armalite or Rock Island (the real RIA isn't even closed!).

SA, Inc. has nothing to do with the real SA, Armalite was "Eagle Arms" and has nothing to do with Fairchild Aircraft, and "Rock Island Armory" is Armscor.

Last edited by missilegeek; 08-02-2013 at 11:43 AM.
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  #14  
Old 08-02-2013, 11:54 AM
meplat meplat is offline
 
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It's what you go to business school for a psychology degree for - selling is all about advertising in a way appealing to consumer ignorance - what makes America great

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  #15  
Old 08-02-2013, 12:02 PM
drwitte drwitte is offline
 
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Rock-ola is completely different from S&W, Armalite, Colt, Springfield Armory, and Rock Island. All of those you have named were actually arms producing companies bought out by another arms producing company/individual that wanted to continue the arms producing under that name. All of these companies made firearms outside of a military contract unlike Rock-Ola.

What James River is doing is taking a jukebox novelty maker of WWII who made carbines (which happen to be fairly rare today) under contract by the US GOVERNMENT, and is profiteering simply off the novelty aspect of their name. James River is not making jukeboxes my friends...

Of course this is perfectly legal in a capitalistic economy and I'm not hammering them for that. I just think it's not ethically up to par, especially if they are made to look like originals or are intended to sell almost identical to originals in hope that they can pass off as originals.
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  #16  
Old 08-02-2013, 12:27 PM
missilegeek missilegeek is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drwitte View Post
Rock-ola is completely different from S&W, Armalite, Colt, Springfield Armory, and Rock Island. All of those you have named were actually arms producing companies bought out by another arms producing company/individual that wanted to continue the arms producing under that name. All of these companies made firearms outside of a military contract unlike Rock-Ola.
SAI and Armscor (SA and RIA were/are military installations) bought out the US Government how?

Armalite was dead for decades. What did Westrom "buy out" but a name?

Marketing is marketing. Let the buyer beware.

Winchester isn't Winchester, Remington isn't Remington, Redfield isn't Redfield, and Weaver isn't Weaver...... They're just names.

Last edited by missilegeek; 08-02-2013 at 12:31 PM.
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  #17  
Old 08-02-2013, 12:28 PM
Hacker Hacker is offline
 
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I think it's a genius idea for James River to have purchased the name.

As others have mentioned, "badge-engineering" is not a new concept to any sector of the manufacturing/retail industry, including firearms.

I understand how many of you are angry at such a classic name being "smudged" by its purchase and use with a modern manufactured item, but the reality is that this is something that has been done dozens of times all ready with names we all know and love. You can slice it however you want to make this one seem different than the others, but the reality is that it isn't. It is not more "ethical" or "unethical" than any other badge engineering.

I say, bravo to James River for seeing an opportunity and taking it. If they bought the name, then they own the name and are free to label their products as they please. It will be up to the consumer to know if what they are buying is a wartime USGI or the commercial version (just the same as it is when they buy a Springfield, or Rock Island, or etc.).

Hope they put out a quality product, like the Fulton examples.
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  #18  
Old 08-02-2013, 12:34 PM
drwitte drwitte is offline
 
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It will all depend on how they spin it. If they make it clear it is a reproduction with reproduction markings, then go for it. But if they start to try and push it off like an original GI, then we get into the unethical. From what some previous posts have said, it sounds like they are doing the latter.
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  #19  
Old 08-02-2013, 01:08 PM
TLB TLB is offline
 
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Since the ones I saw had production serial numbers of 2 and 3 digits, they probably won't be confused with the real thing by those in the looking for a real one--didn't they start at like the 1.6M serial block?
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  #20  
Old 08-02-2013, 01:16 PM
Firstflabn Firstflabn is offline
 
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An even better example of unethical behavior is when someone makes an accusation of unethical behavior based on reading an internet forum comment.
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