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  #21  
Old 12-12-2010, 12:53 AM
stickhauler stickhauler is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 245
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As I haven't seen the book, I can hardly offer an opinion on how good or bad it is. It is claimed by some that the author has at best a questionable reputation on selling parts. Reputation is a valued quality in collecting anything. I'll wait until I actually see a copy of it, or get a evaluation by people in the field I have trust in.

If you think it's a quality book, you're entitled to your opinion. I meant no insult towards you, I misunderstood your handle, and thought you were perhaps from the author's area and liked it based on that fact.

I'll stick with my copies of both War Baby books until this one has passed review by people who know a lot more about carbines than I likely ever will.

As I said, if you felt I insulted you, it certainly wasn't meant to be one, and I apologize if you felt I did.
  #22  
Old 12-12-2010, 10:16 PM
DaveHH DaveHH is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,698
Default Shaker: I rode a Magneto 77" Sportster for 20 years

And nobody ever took me by the hand and led me through changing a busted shifting pawl or truing a set of S&S flywheels. I just asked questions, read books and observed. I've found that having someone lead you through something is only as good as the guy who's leading. Years ago these forums were a joke with opinions good and bad flying around. Which is a good reason to not participate in the game you're asking the good guys to play.
  #23  
Old 12-13-2010, 10:54 AM
milwaukeeshaker milwaukeeshaker is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 821
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NO SENSE ASKING QUESTIONS WHEN NO ONE WILL GIVE ANSWERS!!!!!!! Top Secret stuff this carbine info.

You know, I collect Indian motorcycles also, there are a lot of reproduction parts, made for them, I can ask 95% of the Indian collectors to show me the difference between a NOS part and a Repop and they will do it gladly, but there are also the 5% of guys who "know it all" about the motorcycles and will not tell the newbies anything, taking an "elitest" attitude, I think that attitude is dumb. I am a 20 yr "expert" at the Indian vertical twins, and will gladly show guys the difference. The "humpers" will figure it all out anyway. This is the last I will say on this subject.
  #24  
Old 12-13-2010, 11:50 AM
Newscotlander Newscotlander is offline
 
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Location: New York
Posts: 442
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Anyone who knows me, knows that I will give information freely to them in person. But, I'm not going to broadcast it on the internet.

Maybe you should ask an "expert".
  #25  
Old 12-13-2010, 03:38 PM
stickhauler stickhauler is offline
 
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Posts: 245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newscotlander View Post
Anyone who knows me, knows that I will giveinformation freely to them in person. But, I'm not going to broadcast it on the
internet.

Maybe you should ask an "expert".

And I'd bet you'd share informatio in private messages as well. I have had nothing but kindness from those"in the know" when I had a question about carbines. Maybe because I asked nicely and didn't expect them to give the parts humpers info they needed to "improve" their fake markings?
  #26  
Old 12-13-2010, 07:09 PM
paul1440 paul1440 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Maryland USA
Posts: 205
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I'm not a regular on the carbine forums but let me offer a different perspective.

When I got my first M1 rifle I wanted to know everything about it - the part names, what was "correct", how it worked, how to ID problems and fix them, what was a fake versus real cartouche - so I bought books and read over and over. And I read on forums and did searches for things. When I was stumped I asked questions, but I always tried to learn myself first. I learned a ton.

Another example, I just got my first M1 carbine. I bought books and did some reading. I had a problem - loose receiver to recoil plate. I read, and searched the internet for several times, and found the "how to shoot the carbine accurately" and learned about peening the recoil plate. I did some more reading and searching of forums several more times. And was stumped so I asked here and got some help. But the point being I did my own learning, I tried to figure it out. And a long the way I learned things that are were not necessarily related to my problem. I learned that the whole action rests on the recoil plate and barrel band, the stock fit up doesn't come into play like it does with the Garand, it's normal for the trigger group to be loose, the late barrel band is better for accuracy that the earliest, etc. The biggest thing I learned, all due to forum posters here, was to NOT peen the recoil plate but work on the stock under the recoil plate.

So not only was my problem solved but I learned how the weapon works.

You can tell from this post that I am old school (42 yrs old) and that I am firm believer that anyone who operates a firearm has the ultimate responsibility to know that firearm inside and out (drilled into my head by my dad). I don't believe in running to a forum to ask a bunch of people I don't know how to fix my problem. You could be certifiably insane for all I know. I believe in educating myself first the best I can and then going to a forum. That way I know who is knowledgeable and who isn't, I know who can help me and who is providing questionable info.

So given my beliefs and how I was taught and what I think is the better way to know your firearm do I answer posts by someone who obviously hasn't made the tiniest effort to learn first? Do I enable behavior that I don't agree with?

Well I don't. And I won't. It's not because I think I am elite expert ( I am far from it) but because I don't want to enable behavior that I can't support. I don't have a huge post count, I don't really think I know it all. When I detect someone asking a question and that they have tried to noodle it for themselves, I'll answer. If I don't detect it, I'll just sit quietly and move on.

How many times have you seen:
when was my carbine born
what is correct for my carbine
my carbine does/doesn't do X, help! And X is one of the basic things to know about a carbine
etc.

Again I am not an expert, I never claimed to be one, I am not an elitist guarding my knowledge. I am average person who thinks people need to learn about things in more ways than solely via some internet forum.
__________________
V/R
Paul


Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else.

Last edited by paul1440; 12-13-2010 at 07:11 PM. Reason: typos
  #27  
Old 12-13-2010, 07:24 PM
jimb jimb is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 260
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Newscotlander is well known to me and he knows me as well. Both of us are pretty knowledgable when it comes to carbines. Both of us aswer questions posted privately to us. Both of us (and several others as well) don't like posting detailed answers about identifying fake parts on the open bandwidth. We simply don't like helping the humpers. The things that we have learned from experience deal with small things like stake marks, machining, font types and sizes and a miriad of other tiny details. We are happy to help, but contact us directly and quit acting like a spoiled brat.
  #28  
Old 12-13-2010, 09:22 PM
BQ97 BQ97 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milwaukeeshaker View Post
Shhhh! It's a secret. Nobody will tell you anything, It's a secret only the carbine elite know, and they will not share it in order to educate anyone. They use the "Humpers might get the info" excuse. Or, join the carbine club and pay 250 bucks for all the past newsletters so you can get up to speed.
That's is such a lame post I probably shouldn't post the following, but since it has been posted before I'll go ahead for the benefit of others.

Here is a real Rock-Ola gas cylinder.





Here is a fake Rock-Ola gas cylinder. Notice the slope of the swaged portion.



For those that have Rock-Ola barrels from the CMP compare your's to the two photos and see which one they match. Since this thread is about the new carbine book, those that have the book take a look at some of the barrels pictured (p454, P472) and compare them to the fake Rock-Ola gas cylinder.
  #29  
Old 12-13-2010, 09:41 PM
stickhauler stickhauler is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 245
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul1440 View Post
I'm not a regular on the carbine forums but let me offer a different perspective.

When I got my first M1 rifle I wanted to know everything about it - the part names, what was "correct", how it worked, how to ID problems and fix them, what was a fake versus real cartouche - so I bought books and read over and over. And I read on forums and did searches for things. When I was stumped I asked questions, but I always tried to learn myself first. I learned a ton.

Another example, I just got my first M1 carbine. I bought books and did some reading. I had a problem - loose receiver to recoil plate. I read, and searched the internet for several times, and found the "how to shoot the carbine accurately" and learned about peening the recoil plate. I did some more reading and searching of forums several more times. And was stumped so I asked here and got some help. But the point being I did my own learning, I tried to figure it out. And a long the way I learned things that are were not necessarily related to my problem. I learned that the whole action rests on the recoil plate and barrel band, the stock fit up doesn't come into play like it does with the Garand, it's normal for the trigger group to be loose, the late barrel band is better for accuracy that the earliest, etc. The biggest thing I learned, all due to forum posters here, was to NOT peen the recoil plate but work on the stock under the recoil plate.

So not only was my problem solved but I learned how the weapon works.

You can tell from this post that I am old school (42 yrs old) and that I am firm believer that anyone who operates a firearm has the ultimate responsibility to know that firearm inside and out (drilled into my head by my dad). I don't believe in running to a forum to ask a bunch of people I don't know how to fix my problem. You could be certifiably insane for all I know. I believe in educating myself first the best I can and then going to a forum. That way I know who is knowledgeable and who isn't, I know who can help me and who is providing questionable info.

So given my beliefs and how I was taught and what I think is the better way to know your firearm do I answer posts by someone who obviously hasn't made the tiniest effort to learn first? Do I enable behavior that I don't agree with?

Well I don't. And I won't. It's not because I think I am elite expert ( I am far from it) but because I don't want to enable behavior that I can't support. I don't have a huge post count, I don't really think I know it all. When I detect someone asking a question and that they have tried to noodle it for themselves, I'll answer. If I don't detect it, I'll just sit quietly and move on.

How many times have you seen:
when was my carbine born
what is correct for my carbine
my carbine does/doesn't do X, help! And X is one of the basic things to know about a carbine
etc.

Again I am not an expert, I never claimed to be one, I am not an elitist guarding my knowledge. I am average person who thinks people need to learn about things in
more ways than solely via some internet forum.

That is exactly why I spent the money to get both "War Baby" books, said to be 2 of the better sources on the carbine. And buying them used on-line, I got them for a lot less than retail.

If,after this book gets out there, and an honest review by some the people regarded as expert comes along saying it's a good source, I'll drop the dime to buy it.

But the personal attacks aimed at the "experts" who refuse to put out info that would make it easier to "hump" parts and rip off unsuspecting novice trouble me a lot. i've had discussions with a couple of guys well respected in the carbine collecting world, and was treated well by them. And they were more than happy to help this rookie determine if a part for sale was real or fake.
  #30  
Old 12-13-2010, 10:05 PM
abeal abeal is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,262
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Thanks BQ for the pictures. It would be cool if we have a web site where we posted pictures of carbine parts, markings, cartouches, etc. Your trigger housing and slide pictures were great but we just need a permanent location for those pictures.

It is sad that the book ended up with same fake parts. I saw George's name on the credits and thought uh, oh. I was hoping for the best. Still I do like the format of the book and all the pictures. I guess we are all hungry for a good picture book.
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