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  #1  
Old 12-14-2019, 12:44 PM
USMC 00-08 USMC 00-08 is offline
 
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Default 30 Carbine Minimum and Maximum COAL

I am having a hard time finding a definite answer to my question. What is the minimum and maximum COAL for 30 Carbine rounds with 110gr FMJ? I am trying to duplicate the USGI load.

The load I am using is 14.5 gr of W296 under a 110gr FMJ from Everglades ammo. I know the CMP recommends a load of 15.0gr, but there was no noticeable difference in my groups with 14.5gr and 15.0gr. I get a little nervous loading right at the max of 15.0 grains, so decided 14.5 would do just fine.

My cases have been trimmed to 1.284

The Lee Manual I have says minimum COAL is 1.680, but when I had my test rounds at this length, the bullet slightly engaged the rifling in my Inland. I also have an old Speer manual and it lists max length at 1.690 and gives no minimum length.

I have one box each of factory Remington 110gr FMJ, PRVI 110gr FMJ and an old box of Lake City 43.

The Remington factory ammo has COAL all over the place with the shortest being 1.649 and the longest at 1.665. These chamber just fine in my Inland but the groups are terrible.

The PRVI have COAL at 1.667 to 1.669. The PRVI does well.

I have not used the LC43 because I have one complete box and was keeping it more for collector purposes. They have a COAL of 1.667 to 1.675.

After checking all of these, I set my test rounds to have a COAL of 1.672. Groups were great and they functioned well but it looks like the bullet is still slightly engaging the rifling. Again, it is very slight but I would prefer it not do that. How short of a COAL can I safely go down to? The minimum and maximum length given in the manuals I have seem too long. I don't think a cartridge with an overall length of 1.690 would even work in the USGI magazines I have.
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  #2  
Old 12-14-2019, 01:12 PM
Bayou Bayou is offline
 
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My Hornady manual shows a COL of 1.680" for a 110 grain FMJ...

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  #3  
Old 12-14-2019, 02:28 PM
BRMPCF50 BRMPCF50 is offline
 
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Check this link
http://thecmp.org/wp-content/uploads...Notes_2007.pdf
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Old 12-14-2019, 05:23 PM
rcolarco rcolarco is offline
 
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SAAMI COAL specs:

Min 1.625"

Max 1.680"

If you are going to load them at the short end, I would start with the minimum load. That is a tiny cartridge and pressures can jump easily.
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  #5  
Old 12-14-2019, 06:15 PM
Pappy Pappy is offline
 
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Some of my carbines shoot great with 14gr of H110/296. Your trim length is good, if you don't want the bullet just engaging the rifling then set it back a little more and start shooting. By the way, sometimes I shoot frontier bullets, they have to be set back to 1.659+/- over a IMR4227 load
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Old 12-14-2019, 08:09 PM
cdl2 cdl2 is offline
 
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My Lyman book says 1.68, with 110 gr jacked RN bullet.
Case length at 1.286/1.29
What kind of groups are you getting at 100 yards?
I have a very old Rockola, I think its made up of lots of different rifles.
I've owned this rifle for well over 50 years.
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  #7  
Old 12-14-2019, 09:58 PM
USMC 00-08 USMC 00-08 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcolarco View Post
SAAMI COAL specs:

Min 1.625"

Max 1.680"

If you are going to load them at the short end, I would start with the minimum load. That is a tiny cartridge and pressures can jump easily.
Thank you for that. That is what I was looking for!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pappy View Post
Some of my carbines shoot great with 14gr of H110/296. Your trim length is good, if you don't want the bullet just engaging the rifling then set it back a little more and start shooting. By the way, sometimes I shoot frontier bullets, they have to be set back to 1.659+/- over a IMR4227 load
What is the overall length when you use H110/296?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cdl2 View Post
My Lyman book says 1.68, with 110 gr jacked RN bullet.
Case length at 1.286/1.29
What kind of groups are you getting at 100 yards?
I have a very old Rockola, I think its made up of lots of different rifles.
I've owned this rifle for well over 50 years.
I did not test these on paper at 100 yds, but was shooting an 8 inch steel target at that distance. I loaded 15 rounds each of 14.5 and 15.0gr. 10 rounds of each were fired in 5 shot groups on the 25yd M1 Carbine Target. Those produced about 1 inch groups. Shooting at the steel target at 100 yds with a five shot group of each load, I was able to hit it with every shot.
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  #8  
Old 12-15-2019, 04:32 AM
Pappy Pappy is offline
 
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With Hornady, Remington, Berry's 110's, the OAL runs 1.678-1.682.

Last edited by Pappy; 12-15-2019 at 04:39 AM.
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  #9  
Old 12-15-2019, 08:45 AM
USriflecal30 USriflecal30 is offline
 
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You can always measure your own COAL. I use a threaded rod. close the bolt, use a nut on the rod and run it down to muzzle. Insert a bullet into the gun, hold it in place with light pressure. Insert the threaded rod, run a nut to the muzzle and measure the difference between the two nuts. Or measure from another reference like the end of the threaded rod. Your COAL will vary slightly with different manufacturers, even if they are all 110 gr RN bullets. Sounds like with your bullet and chamber you just need to be a tiny bit short of 1.68. I've double checked this, and HAD to do it to load for my K31 (NO bullets will load to the OAL listed for the cartridge except for the original GP-11 rounds)

BTW, I only load 13.6 gr 110/296 to 1.675 OAL with Xtreme Bullets 110 gr RN. That's what "zeroes" my gun (rear sight all the way down, new unaltered front sight, 6 o'clock hold on standard SR-1 target, hits center of black which is 3 MOA higher than hold). Those loads shoot to just under 1900 fps. When I first did some test loads I loaded up to 15 gr 110 and never shot them. The rounds I loaded at 14.5 gr were already just over 2000 fps, printed too high, so there was no reason. The lightest load was about 13.8 and it was close to zeroing at 100 yard center (standard SR-1 center as we shoot in matches). I dropped a couple tenths off the load to 13.6 gr and started shooting it in matches. She shoots pretty darn good for a carbine, mid to high 90s prone.
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  #10  
Old 12-15-2019, 11:19 AM
USMC 00-08 USMC 00-08 is offline
 
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I didn't realize I could drop below the 14.0 grain minimum listed in the manual. I'll have to try that out.

My carbine shoots low. Using the 25yd M1 Carbine target that says it is from page 53 of TM 9-1276, I have to set the rear sight at 300 using a 6 o'clock hold to get about an inch inside the dotted line. The rear sight at 250 puts me just below the dotted line. Maybe I need to file the front sight down but I really don't want to do that.

I should mention that the 1 inch groups I talked about in post #7 was done at 25yds from a bench using sand bags. I don't normally shoot the carbine like that but did since I was trying to test the accuracy of the reloads vs factory ammo.
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