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  #1  
Old 08-27-2015, 08:19 PM
jabbo jabbo is offline
 
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Default Need some expert opinions....

I recently got some WWII dummy rounds - they don't look like the WWII dummies I've got before (all of the previous ones are on 5 round stripper clips and have headstamp "FA 4")

Here are a couple of pix of the newly acquired rounds next to the FA 4 rounds...first off, the cases and bullets are much more "silvery" than the others...the headstamps of the newly acquired rounds are: "LC 42" (2 of them), "DEN 42", "SL 4", "DM 4" and perhaps "OM 4"...all are (or rather would be) boxer primed....

Also, the grooves in the cases of the newly acquired rounds are all longer than the ones in the "FA 4" headstamped ones, as can be seen in the first photo showing a 5 round clip of the "FA 4" rounds next to a couple of the newly acquired rounds. The second pic shows the headstamps of the newly acquired rounds....

Any help would be greatly appreciated!




Last edited by jabbo; 08-27-2015 at 08:30 PM.
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  #2  
Old 08-27-2015, 08:44 PM
613jmm 613jmm is offline
 
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I don't know if it qualifies as an expert opinion. But yep, those look like genuine dummy rounds.

What is your question?
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  #3  
Old 08-27-2015, 09:39 PM
jabbo jabbo is offline
 
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The question is simply why the newly acquired dummy rounds are different from the three sets of 5-round dummy rounds that I've already acquired....
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  #4  
Old 08-27-2015, 10:10 PM
sigman2 sigman2 is offline
 
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It looks as though they may have been made from fired brass. I don't have any military dummies but I seem to recall that the ones I did see were lacking flash holes.
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  #5  
Old 08-27-2015, 10:11 PM
WRMorrison WRMorrison is offline
 
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It's just an earlier method of manufacture. I've got lots of both. The "silvery" cases are tinned. Here's an article on it:

http://cartridgecollectors.org/?page...-06-cartridges

"The earliest U.S. military dummies had tinned cases with 6 "flutes" (grooves running along the case), and 4 holes drilled in the case below the flutes. This early form of dummy (referred to as the M1906) was replaced with a very similar one
but with 3 holes in the flutes. This was also changed to one hole and then no holes at all, eventually being referred to as the M40 by which time the tinned case had been dropped in favor of plain brass or steel. Any cases were used, including rejected cases and occasionally cases intended for match rounds. There was also a series of smooth-case dummies without these flutes but with 1, 2 or 3 holes in the case, the latter being called the M2. Keep your eyes open for the Range Dummy. This round looks like a normal ball round except it has a groove cut in the head near the rim. This was used by instructors who sneaked the round into a recruit's magazine to detect flinching."

-WRM
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  #6  
Old 08-27-2015, 10:23 PM
jabbo jabbo is offline
 
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Does the "silvery cases" mean that the bullet is "silvery" also?

BTW...thanks for your input!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRMorrison View Post
It's just an earlier method of manufacture. I've got lots of both. The "silvery" cases are tinned. Here's an article on it:

http://cartridgecollectors.org/?page...-06-cartridges

"The earliest U.S. military dummies had tinned cases with 6 "flutes" (grooves running along the case), and 4 holes drilled in the case below the flutes. This early form of dummy (referred to as the M1906) was replaced with a very similar one
but with 3 holes in the flutes. This was also changed to one hole and then no holes at all, eventually being referred to as the M40 by which time the tinned case had been dropped in favor of plain brass or steel. Any cases were used, including rejected cases and occasionally cases intended for match rounds. There was also a series of smooth-case dummies without these flutes but with 1, 2 or 3 holes in the case, the latter being called the M2. Keep your eyes open for the Range Dummy. This round looks like a normal ball round except it has a groove cut in the head near the rim. This was used by instructors who sneaked the round into a recruit's magazine to detect flinching."

-WRM
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  #7  
Old 08-28-2015, 12:47 PM
WRMorrison WRMorrison is offline
 
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I've seen both ways; projo tinned and raw
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  #8  
Old 08-28-2015, 07:18 PM
St.John St.John is offline
 
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I have FA 4 dummy rounds as well. Mine have the holes drilled but no grooves. The seem to be made of steel because they are magnetic and silvery as well. The bullets are copper and are light weight which leads me to believe they are solid and not lead core. Some have flash hole and some do not. They were advertised as Springfield 03 training rounds.
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  #9  
Old 08-28-2015, 08:22 PM
WRMorrison WRMorrison is offline
 
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I took some of mine off the shelf for a couple pictures for you. I collect belt-fed ammunition for US-adopted machine guns and cannons, and I prefer factory dummies whenever possible.

As you can see, there's a wide variety of styles used over the years. In the early days, live ammo was broken down to make the dummies and they didn't even bother to remove the primers sometimes. My earliest '06 dummies are from 1917.

-WRM













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  #10  
Old 08-29-2015, 04:19 PM
jabbo jabbo is offline
 
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Excellent info Sir! It's kinda hard for my old eyes to read the headstamps on the last picture, but still, thanks a lot!

None of the dummies I've mentioned have the holes, but I vaguely remember seeing them - I may have some....

St. John - the FA 4 dummies I have - both the bullets and the cases attract a magnet - on the six recently acquired dummies only the bullet attracts a magnet....

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRMorrison View Post
I took some of mine off the shelf for a couple pictures for you. I collect belt-fed ammunition for US-adopted machine guns and cannons, and I prefer factory dummies whenever possible.

As you can see, there's a wide variety of styles used over the years. In the early days, live ammo was broken down to make the dummies and they didn't even bother to remove the primers sometimes. My earliest '06 dummies are from 1917.

-WRM














Last edited by jabbo; 08-29-2015 at 04:24 PM.
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