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  #31  
Old 08-05-2017, 11:14 PM
rickgman rickgman is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deuceguy View Post
Agree with ceresco. Leave the wood and steel matches alone. Modern military should be a current AR, M14 EBR, FN, even a MP5 or a Barret if someone wants.

Add in a Modern Sniper... any scope, any bolt action

SOMETHING TO BRING IN NEW BLOOD!
Josh, The MM Match is for service rifles - not DMR's or sniper rifles or SMG's. Contrary to what some might believe, a match that is a "free for all" does not attract shooters. It turns off serious shooters who want some sort of discipline in the rules. Serious shooters are the guys who actually show up - not the "blasters" who tell everyone that if they could only shoot their whatever, they'd get into competition. It's all talk.
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  #32  
Old 08-06-2017, 10:41 AM
Deuceguy Deuceguy is offline
 
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Rick, I think the definition of service rifle is very subjective at this point and excludes a lot of potential shooters. There are enough pictures of DMRs and others platforms in service and that is how the younger generations are building their platforms. They would never trade in their space guns for plane jane service rifles. How would you suggest to convert blasters into shooters?
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  #33  
Old 08-06-2017, 10:49 AM
rickgman rickgman is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Deuceguy View Post
Rick, I think the definition of service rifle is very subjective at this point and excludes a lot of potential shooters. There are enough pictures of DMRs and others platforms in service and that is how the younger generations are building their platforms. They would never trade in their space guns for plane jane service rifles. How would you suggest to convert blasters into shooters?
Josh, The definition isn't subjective. The standard service rifle is the standard issue infantry weapon. Since WWI, there have been other weapons used by the infantry but there is still only one standard service rifle. Just because there was one BAR per Army squad and three BAR's per Marine squad doesn't mean that BAR's were service rifles. They were what we now refer to as squad automatic weapons.
As for turning blasters into shooters, that's a much harder question. I think that the issue isn't the equipment as much as the mindset and interest level. Conventional service rifle competition isn't exactly exciting and the current course of fire is something out of the late 1800's. I would suggest that going to a course of fire like the Army EIC matches might be somewhat better for generating interest since it's a bit more oriented toward real world shooting skills. I don't expect that to happen anytime soon - if ever. Rick
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  #34  
Old 08-06-2017, 04:58 PM
Deuceguy Deuceguy is offline
 
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In today's blaster mentality, the definition of a service rifle is subjective. If it has a collapsible stock, single point sling, Eotech, Acog, quadrail, flashlight, forearm grip AND it's shown in movies or the internet, then it's a service rifle. And yes, the current courses of fire suck and are boring.

Rick, I agree with all of your points because I'm a match shooter, regardless of how crappy I shoot, because I show up with the traditional equipment.

Nothing will change and so will continue the death spiral of match shooting.
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  #35  
Old 08-06-2017, 06:33 PM
Rootsy Rootsy is offline
 
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There is nothing wrong with the equipment or the courses of fire. What is wrong is society's mindset that places little value or energy on pursuing something that takes dedication and is not easy. Traditional HP isn't an instant gratification endeavor where you can buy points with $$$ and equipment. Rewards aren't monetary when you do reach a goal unlike prs and run n gun or action pistol.
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  #36  
Old 08-06-2017, 08:25 PM
mnhusker mnhusker is offline
 
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The key statement through the entire rules is "as issued".

If we are adhering to that then it becomes a lot easier to sort out what is and isn't supposed to be on the firing line.

If big green or USMC , USAF, or USN used it fine, if not it's no go.
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  #37  
Old 08-06-2017, 08:40 PM
rickgman rickgman is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Rootsy View Post
There is nothing wrong with the equipment or the courses of fire.
Rootsy, you sound like a man highly invested in the status quo. That can certainly have an effect on your view of things. Not everyone sees things as you do. Rick
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  #38  
Old 08-06-2017, 09:23 PM
Rootsy Rootsy is offline
 
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Originally Posted by rickgman View Post
Rootsy, you sound like a man highly invested in the status quo. That can certainly have an effect on your view of things. Not everyone sees things as you do. Rick
How do you know how "invested" I am? To assume such and insinuate I have some motive is arrogant.

FYI I shoot a regular ole NM A4 with a middle of the road scope. I have a used Creedmoor jacket and a 4 year old glove. A CMP mat I started with and the fanciest thing I have is a Kowa 82 spotting scope.

I spend my time training to put each shot closer to the center not gaming the system or bellyaching because it is too hard, to slow or too boring because I am too lazy to try.

When I am not shooting or training I am recruiting, coaching, mentoring and doing my best to run good matches so others too can build themselves up.

You won't be beaten by better equipment, only a better shooter still sings true.

So go check yourself....
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  #39  
Old 08-06-2017, 09:28 PM
rickgman rickgman is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rootsy View Post
How do you know how "invested" I am? To assume such and insinuate I have some motive is arrogant.

FYI I shoot a regular ole NM A4 with a middle of the road scope. I have a used Creedmoor jacket and a 4 year old glove. A CMP mat I started with and the fanciest thing I have is a Kowa 82 spotting scope.
Rootsy, there is more to being invested than equipment. I think you just proved my point. I'm not saying it is necessarily bad to be invested but it most certainly colors how you view change. Rick
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  #40  
Old 08-06-2017, 09:32 PM
Deuceguy Deuceguy is offline
 
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[QUOTE=30calmike;1622657]Shot the MM Match. Looks like "you bring it, you can shoot it". Saw some AR "things" I couldn't describe. If the CMP people couldn't classify it as "as-issued" something MM, it went into "unlimited". No one was disappointed.

The can of worms is already open. While some are shooting scoped ARs, I'm just going shoot my rig in the unlimited.

The long term goal is having more people my age and younger shoot.
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