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  #21  
Old 10-12-2019, 05:55 PM
LavaTech LavaTech is offline
 
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DO avoid shooting rifle grenades in your M1 if you have a short fork follower rod installed though,... it's likely to dismount in the process. In this case swap in a long fork rod before launching.
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  #22  
Old 10-12-2019, 07:47 PM
Gunsling3r1988 Gunsling3r1988 is offline
 
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I've always thought it would be fun to launch a dummy grenade with a Garand!
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  #23  
Old 10-13-2019, 04:35 PM
oldredwhiteblue oldredwhiteblue is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando View Post
Why? When launching grenades the rifle does not cycle like it does with M2ball ammo. Receiver heels cracking because of launching grenades is a myth
The grenade launcher stud opens the gas screw poppet valve letting gas escape so the bolt does not cycle, does not come into contact with receiver heel



I will admit that i have not launched grenades from a Garand... however I have read Hatchers account of heels breaking from this... he could be wrong.
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  #24  
Old 10-13-2019, 04:49 PM
aimit aimit is offline
 
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Orlando is right. When firing normal ball ammo the bolt contacts the heel. A good op rod spring keeps it from hitting hard enough to damage anything. When firing grenades the bolt does not travel far enough to contact the heel.
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  #25  
Old 10-13-2019, 07:27 PM
oldredwhiteblue oldredwhiteblue is offline
 
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I found the information about the Grenade launcher very interesting... especially after having read Hatchers notebook. I did a little digging and found that this has been discussed before here... many times! Orlando is right. The M7 will not break a Garand heel because it absolutely won't cycle the bolt. However, there were launchers used on the Garand prior to the M7 that were not designed for it and violently slammed the bolt and broke heels. So Hatcher was not wrong either.

Stole this from an older thread:


Don Ohio Don is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelap View Post
It's interesting how these myths stay alive, when a little thought on how the grenade launcher works will tell you that cracked heels, broken op rods, etc. just can't happen due to use of the grenade launcher.

When the launcher is mounted to the barrel, the poppet valve is opened, venting the gases (and thus the motive force) to the front of the rifle. The op rod, as stated, is impacted only slightly.

Maybe we need a Myth-Busters sticky in Ask Each Other!

Heal Annealing due to grenades - Busted!

Op Ron Cut due to grenades - Busted!

Low Number M1903s unsafe to fire - Unproven!

"Life is Good!"
Well it took me a while to get to where it was originally reported but I guess Orlando and you think that the internet was around back in the 1940s. Let's see if you recall this quoted text.
Quote:
For service use a grenade discharger can be attached to the muzzle of the Garand rifle. In the early use of this device, the bolt opened with such speed that the rear end of the receiver where the motion of the bolt is arrested was often cracked.
To overcome this difficulty,the gas cylinder screw was fitted with a valve. A plunger on the grenade discharger opens the valve so that the gas action on the operating rod is reduced. In addition, the rear end of the receiver is drawn to a higher temperature in the heat treatment so as to toughen it.
Drawing is what is commonly referred to as tempering.

So your "Heal Annealing due to grenades - Busted!" is BUSTED.
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  #26  
Old 10-13-2019, 11:53 PM
Rock Rock is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldredwhiteblue View Post
there were launchers used on the Garand prior to the M7 that were not designed for it and violently slammed the bolt and broke heels. So Hatcher was not wrong either.
Quote:
Quote:
For service use a grenade discharger can be attached to the muzzle of the Garand rifle. In the early use of this device, the bolt opened with such speed that the rear end of the receiver where the motion of the bolt is arrested was often cracked.

To overcome this difficulty,the gas cylinder screw was fitted with a valve. A plunger on the grenade discharger opens the valve so that the gas action on the operating rod is reduced. In addition, the rear end of the receiver is drawn to a higher temperature in the heat treatment so as to toughen it.
Drawing is what is commonly referred to as tempering.
Or was it the other way around; rear end of receiver cracked, rear end toughened and then later, the addition of a valve to reduce gas action on the operating rod.

This is an unexplored area of Garand history that needs more attention. The often given reason for annealing Garand receiver heels doesn't make sense to me.
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  #27  
Old 10-14-2019, 12:04 AM
Col. Colt Col. Colt is offline
 
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I believe LeRoy Thompson (could be wrong about the first name) wrote two excellent M1 Garand books, and disproved the "anything but GI Ball equivalent ammo destroys an M1" myth.

He got a Case of Winchester 220 gr. Bear loads from a gun shop in California that couldn't get rid of it, and tested. A basic, standard Service grade M1 was fully cleaned and LUBED EXACTLY PER THE GI MANUAL with Rifle Grease. He fired over 400 rounds of this 220 gr. BEAR LOAD with no noticeable damage or accelerated wear. No change to the rifle that you could notice, period.

Then he degreased the rifle, reassembled it with only "Gun Oil" on all surfaces - and destroyed the op rod and damaged the rifle slightly in less than ten rounds.

USE GREASE ("Grease, Rifle" or perhaps even better modern synthetics like Mobil 1), on ALL surfaces AS PER THE GI MANUAL - and stop worrying about it. If 400 220 gr. bear loads have no effect on a standard M1, I would say the design is fine - but ONLY when maintained EXACTLY per the GI Manual. Both the Garand and M14 are basically 1930's designs with sliding surfaces - the REQUIRE Grease to run well, except in sandy or very cold environments. CC

Last edited by Col. Colt; 10-14-2019 at 12:08 AM.
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  #28  
Old 10-14-2019, 12:37 PM
Rock Rock is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Col. Colt View Post
Then he degreased the rifle, reassembled it with only "Gun Oil" on all surfaces - and destroyed the op rod and damaged the rifle slightly in less than ten rounds.
I get a feeling that something is missing from the story. Grease is great, oil results in destruction? Need some more details on that one.
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  #29  
Old 10-14-2019, 11:55 PM
Col. Colt Col. Colt is offline
 
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If grease and oil could do each other's jobs, there would only be one of them! And to this day, we have need of both. Oil is too thin for many jobs.

Early 20th Century machinery designs frequently had large surface areas running on each other - metals were not as hard, alloys less used and spreading the load over larger areas Running On Grease reduced wear. In such an environment, oil wipes right off. No lube with extreme pressure/heat and you get failure. That is my layperson's explaination, I am sure a Lubrication person will chime in here.

So, a well know and respected writer reports actual results, and you choose not to believe him - based on, what?

PS - I think the recoil was probably less pleasant, over many 8 round clips!

CC

Last edited by Col. Colt; 10-14-2019 at 11:56 PM. Reason: PS
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  #30  
Old 10-15-2019, 12:15 AM
Rock Rock is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Col. Colt View Post
So, a well know and respected writer reports actual results, and you choose not to believe him - based on, what?
I have a thing about getting all the available facts before I believe anything. It's one of my shortcomings.
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