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  #1  
Old 04-04-2018, 01:40 AM
mebudman63 mebudman63 is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Austin,TX
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Default First time loading for Garand

I will be reloading for my Garand for the first time.

Using HXP Brass.
IMR 4064 Powder
Hornady 150g FMJBT

Does this qualify as "military" brass and i need to reduce the powder charge?

NRA Load Data says 50.0g Powder, any input.

Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 04-04-2018, 06:28 AM
rcolarco rcolarco is offline
 
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In the .30-06, "military" brass is not an issue.

50 grains of 4064 is too hot for a Garand in .30-06, no matter what the brass. 44-46 will give you good functioning and good accuracy.

Buy the Hornady manual for reliable, Garand-specific data. It does not list 4064 for the Garand, but Varget maxes out at 46.2. Varget is a good surrogate for 4064.

The Hornady 150 FMJBT is mediocre for accuracy. Try any 168 HPBT match bullet.
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  #3  
Old 04-04-2018, 07:53 AM
Polaris Polaris is offline
 
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I'm using 47 gr IMR 4064 with HXP brass and a SB primer. (This primer is on the mild side, if you use Win or CCI NATOS, drop the charge a grain). This load duplicates 200 yard impact of LC M2ball.

I get pretty good accuracy, better than M2 ball. I use this load for practice shooting.
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  #4  
Old 04-04-2018, 10:46 AM
ceresco ceresco is offline
 
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What kind of shooting are you doing?? If it's under 300yds, use a 110-125gr bullet and a light to moderate load. The 168gr HPBT is expensive overkill and money for 147gr FMJs poorly spent compared to a 500 of Speer 125gr TNTs. Look through these forums..... Good Shooting. ..
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  #5  
Old 04-04-2018, 06:42 PM
lapriester lapriester is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Cobb, N California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mebudman63 View Post
I will be reloading for my Garand for the first time.

Using HXP Brass.
IMR 4064 Powder
Hornady 150g FMJBT

Does this qualify as "military" brass and i need to reduce the powder charge?

NRA Load Data says 50.0g Powder, any input.

Thanks.
"NRA Load Data says 50.0g Powder, any input."

That is much too hot a load and not at all needed or recommended for a Garand. Most of that old NRA data is much too old and recommends too high charges. For 150-155gr loads I doubt you'll get much higher than 46gr before you find the sweet spot. Once I hit 47gr in my load development accuracy started going downhill. I settled with 46gr behind a 155 and it has been my match load ever since.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcolarco View Post
In the .30-06, "military" brass is not an issue.

50 grains of 4064 is too hot for a Garand in .30-06, no matter what the brass. 44-46 will give you good functioning and good accuracy.

Buy the Hornady manual for reliable, Garand-specific data. It does not list 4064 for the Garand, but Varget maxes out at 46.2. Varget is a good surrogate for 4064.

The Hornady 150 FMJBT is mediocre for accuracy. Try any 168 HPBT match bullet.
+1 This!

Last edited by Big_Red; 04-14-2018 at 08:20 AM. Reason: Merge consecutive posts
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  #6  
Old 04-04-2018, 09:58 PM
7.62 Nitro Express 7.62 Nitro Express is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcolarco View Post
In the .30-06, "military" brass is not an issue.

50 grains of 4064 is too hot for a Garand in .30-06, no matter what the brass. 44-46 will give you good functioning and good accuracy.

Buy the Hornady manual for reliable, Garand-specific data. It does not list 4064 for the Garand, but Varget maxes out at 46.2. Varget is a good surrogate for 4064.
While most of your advice on this board is quite good, I've just got to disagree here.


It has been a NRA recommended "M2 Ball Equivalent" load for decades. It works.

I've fired thousands of rounds loaded using that recipe and never had any sort of issue since the day I cut it out of the American Rifleman and pasted it to the inside cover of my reloading manual. Of course I worked it up to get there as any reloader should do.

Outside the M1 world it is a mid range '06 load and works great with soft points for hunting.

Any M1 Garand loading manual that does not have an IMR 4064/150gr .30-'06 load isn't worth being used as a door stop.

If you want to use something that is barely a starting load because the local gravel pit only affords 100 yds or you want to save your shoulder by using the lowest charge that will cycle the rifle, go ahead, but the idea that it is "too hot" is not true. Period. Stop.

Last edited by 7.62 Nitro Express; 04-04-2018 at 11:37 PM.
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  #7  
Old 04-05-2018, 06:50 AM
pinholeshoot pinholeshoot is offline
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Federal does have ammunition specifically for the Garand. It is boxed in the familiar American Eagle red and black box. They are loaded with a 150 gr bullet that does have a cannelure and are seated to the middle of the cannelure with an OAL of 3.185". The cases are date stamped with crimped primers a la military. The crimped primer pockets must be swaged or cut out for reloading.

You've no doubt heard the warning not to use standard commercial ammunition in the Garand on the possibility of bending the operating rod due to excessive bleed off pressure to the op rod. However, if this is something to be concerned about, it would be for heavier bullets and slow burning powder maintaining higher pressure at the muzzle, opposed to lower pressure with medium burning powder like 4895 and 4064. I can't recall any reports of bent op rods because of using commercial ammunition but there must be something to the warning.
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  #8  
Old 04-05-2018, 07:24 AM
rcolarco rcolarco is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7.62 Nitro Express View Post
While most of your advice on this board is quite good, I've just got to disagree here.


It has been a NRA recommended "M2 Ball Equivalent" load for decades. It works.

I've fired thousands of rounds loaded using that recipe and never had any sort of issue since the day I cut it out of the American Rifleman and pasted it to the inside cover of my reloading manual. Of course I worked it up to get there as any reloader should do.

Outside the M1 world it is a mid range '06 load and works great with soft points for hunting.

Any M1 Garand loading manual that does not have an IMR 4064/150gr .30-'06 load isn't worth being used as a door stop.

If you want to use something that is barely a starting load because the local gravel pit only affords 100 yds or you want to save your shoulder by using the lowest charge that will cycle the rifle, go ahead, but the idea that it is "too hot" is not true. Period. Stop.
I also think the op rod danger is overblown. However, I do not think it is necessary to over-stress 60-80 year old rifles that are getting very expensive to repair. Light loads can be very accurate all the way out to 600.

I talked to the Hornady ballisticians about why they did not include 4064. They could not offer a satisfactory explanation. However, I do not think the missing 4064 is a good reason to reject the rest of the manual. Hornady provides the most comprehensive recent gas gun info we have.
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  #9  
Old 04-05-2018, 02:12 PM
mikld mikld is offline
 
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Location: Oregon
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I love my Garand. I take as good of care of it as I can and limit myself to loads producing about 2600-2700 fps. With "normal" Garand powders. I have read of gas volume at the gas port and high volume/pressure can damage the Op rod, but for me and my baby, I won't take any chances. The NRA Garand loads seem pretty hot to me and I've never gone that high, but to each his own...

When I started to reload for it I got a ton+ of flack here because I was using 147 gr. pulls, just to get used to reloading for my rifle. Worked OK for me as I was more concerned with function than accuracy. I soon went to premium bullets in 150-155 gr HPBT. I'm not a good shot, old eyes, but on a really good eye day I get sub 4" groups at 100, and on a really good day 3" and less are common.
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  #10  
Old 04-05-2018, 02:58 PM
lapriester lapriester is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Cobb, N California
Posts: 16,204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7.62 Nitro Express View Post
While most of your advice on this board is quite good, I've just got to disagree here.


It has been a NRA recommended "M2 Ball Equivalent" load for decades. It works.

I've fired thousands of rounds loaded using that recipe and never had any sort of issue since the day I cut it out of the American Rifleman and pasted it to the inside cover of my reloading manual. Of course I worked it up to get there as any reloader should do.

Outside the M1 world it is a mid range '06 load and works great with soft points for hunting.

Any M1 Garand loading manual that does not have an IMR 4064/150gr .30-'06 load isn't worth being used as a door stop.

If you want to use something that is barely a starting load because the local gravel pit only affords 100 yds or you want to save your shoulder by using the lowest charge that will cycle the rifle, go ahead, but the idea that it is "too hot" is not true. Period. Stop.
"
Any M1 Garand loading manual that does not have an IMR 4064/150gr .30-'06 load isn't worth being used as a door stop."

No reloading manual can list every possible bullet powder combination possible. If they did the manuals would have to be encyclopedia like multiple volumes that would fill an entire bookshelf. Hornady is the best....only....one around. It's quite simple BTW. For 150-155 loads just use the Varget suggested loads. That will never get you in trouble since, in my experience exact same charges perform exactly the same Varget vs 4064. I feel no reluctance stating that. If I doubted it, I wouldn't say it and it's based on extensive load development. The only difference between them that I've ever seen is that Varget burns cleaner (less neck "soot") and meters a bit better than 4064.

Besides, following anyone's load data blindly, NRA or other, is not a legitimate way to develop the most accurate loads. Nor is working so hard to match M2 specs. M2 was never that accurate to begin with and the spec was created to insure absolute reliable function in battle and not best accuracy. Most times you find a load that runs at lower velocity than M2 will be more accurate. Use the published data as a guide for where to start and where to stop in your load development. Load up test loads within that range and head for the range and have some fun. I have a chrono upstairs I've never taken out of the box because I could care less what FPS my most accurate load is traveling at as long as the rifle functions reliably with the load. Why waste powder trying to match M2 specs that are most likely not going to be the most accurate anyway.

Last edited by lapriester; 04-05-2018 at 03:13 PM.
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