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Old 07-24-2018, 10:02 AM
sabjeff sabjeff is offline
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 44

You got some great questions and I will try to tackle them one by one.

1. Yes, CMP smallbore and NRA conventional smallbore require a single shot rifle or that the rifle be loaded one shot at a time. CMP rimfire sporter and NRA light rifle matches are geared towards sporter rifles like the 10/22 with a completely different set of targets to shoot, and this might be what Quarterbore is alluding to. They are fun matches if they are available in your area. There is a little bit of a rift between the NRA and CMP but to do that justice would require a whole other post or a least a few hours and adult beverages.

2. A Dewar match is a type of smallbore match that involves shooting a target at 50yd and one at 100yd. A typical match is 40 shots for score and unlimited sighters. The Dewar is divided up with 20 shots at 50yd and 20 shots at 100yd with unlimited sighters for each distance, and each target is shot with a time limit of 20 minutes. The targets are different for each yardage but are proportional to each other so they look the same in your sights, just the 100 yd is larger because it is farther away. A typical day long match is called a 1600 match it involves 40 shots for score for each segment, i.e. 50yd, 50 meter, Dewar, and 100yd. Each segment is shot with two targets with 20 shots for score and unlimited sighters in 20 minutes. Grand total for the day is 160 shots for score or a total of a possible 1600 pts.

3. Yes, F class is a thing and it is shot prone with a bipod, sometimes very fancy bipods that cost a lot $$$. Conventional prone is just like highpower, rifle, sling glove, mat spotting scope, etc. Bipods my be used but are a simple bipod and its purpose is to keep the rifle out of the mud and dirt during target changes and rest periods. It is not used during the firing period.

4. Yes, conventional prone and 3p can be shot with metallic ( aperture) sights and scope. A lot of times a match will be a two day or more event. In this case one day is shot with aperture sights and the second day is any sights and can be shot with either a scope or the aperture sights. A one day event is usually an any sight match and you can choose to shoot either aperture or scope, but you have to check out the match program to verify that is the case. There is no limit to scope like in highpower. I shoot with a 20 power scope and some of the hard holders use as much as 36 power scopes. Not my cup of tea because I shake enough with 20 power. A lot of times we have our scope & ring attached to a rail that can be slid onto the grooved receiver rail and tightened down. Speaking for myself I can switch out between apertures and scope in a matter of a few minutes not really a problem with the right Allen wrench. Zero is not really affected and if it is it is just a few clicks of movement one way or the other. Not really a big deal.

5. Yup, you are good to go with your highpower coat. The shooting pants help in 3p. In Kneeling they have some rubber textured areas to help keep a good grip in position, and in standing postion they stiffen up the lower torso area and legs to help stabilize the postion. It is kind of funny to watch the prone matches because you can tell the difference between the 3p folks vs. the prone shooters. The 3p shooters wear their pants even though they do not help in prone postion. Us prone guys are in shorts in the summer and our coats. Might as well be as comfortable as we can in the heat and humidity.

You mentioned that you live in NY. You can check with your state association and they might lead you to a club or group that shoots smallbore. I was at the CMP smallbore match at Perry a few days ago and there was a large contingent sponsored by the New York Rifle and Pistol Assoc. You could also contact some local clubs to see if they have a smallbore program. Another thought, if you get the American Rifleman there is a page with a list of matches in your region. It is towards the back and is lumped in with the listings for gun shows, etc.

Hope this helps and if you have any other question feel free to ask.

Last edited by sabjeff; 07-24-2018 at 10:04 AM.
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Old 07-24-2018, 10:24 AM
ItsGarand ItsGarand is offline
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Absurdistan
Posts: 613
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There is a lot to soak in about small bore, but if you just want to get started, (aside from the rifle) you have all the gear you need to shoot a small bore match tomorrow.

With a simple semi-auto or bolt .22 rifle, you can shoot a very competitive, yet simple CMP Rimfire sporter match. Basically, the only things you can not use for the sporter match is a professional shooting coat and glove. We use oven mits and tight sweatshirts etc.

It's a 60 round match - with prone and sitting positions shot at 50 yards and standing at 25 yards. Each shooting position has a slow and rapid fire stage.

It's a really fun match to shoot and is more challenging than you might suspect. Especially when the weather does not cooperate like at Perry this past weekend - wet and WINDY!
“If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace” - Thomas Paine
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Old 07-24-2018, 06:54 PM
Ham_Chu Ham_Chu is offline
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 164

Once again, thank you. This has been VERY helpful. I think I might start out with a cheap rifle, and get the hang of it before going deep.

I am interested in hearing more of this swapping irons & scopes off a rail system. Is there a manufacturer out there I could research?

Also do I NEED to have irons, if I just wanted to start scope? It sounds like I wouldn't need both until I went for classification.

Thanx again
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Old 07-24-2018, 07:56 PM
sabjeff sabjeff is offline
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 44

Here is a link to scope rail adapter for the Anschutz rifle sold by Champion Shooters Supply.


Champions Choice also sells a similar one made by Anschutz which is more expensive. The reciever of the Anschutz has a 11mm dovetail rail milled on the top of the receiver. This will accept the rear sight or the scope rail. Either is secured with a thumb screw or Allen head clamping screw on to the rail. It is very easy to loosen and slide off one for the other. Depending on the vintage of the Anschutz rifle the front sight is either attached to the muzzle via a sight block or grooves milled into the top of the barrel. Again it is attached with either a thumb screw or Allen head clamping screw. Very easy to attach and remove.

I would recommend a set of aperture sights for the simple reason that if you sign up for a 3200 two day match you will need them for the first day of shooting. Also if the weather conditions are bad sometimes the aperture sights are better to use compared to a scope. If you are lucky and acquire a used rifle they might come with a set of aperture sights, if not you can find decent sets on EBay or Gunbroker for a fraction that a new set would cost.
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Old 07-25-2018, 08:05 PM
abeal abeal is offline
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,251

A match is two targets. Before the match starts, you hang one target on the target frame using clips. Then when everyone is back to the line, they start a three minute prep. Then you have 20 minutes to shoot that target. After twenty minutes, they call cease fire. You then go down and replace your target with a new one. Someone usually picks up the target you just shot to score.

A 50 yard target has one or two sighter bullseyes and four bullseyes for record. You can shoot as many shots at a the sighter bulls, but five shots in each record bull. A 100 yard target has one sighter bull and two record bulls. Ten shots each in each record bull.

In a Dewar match, the target frame is at 50 yards on the first target and then is moved to 100 yards for the second target.
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Old 07-26-2018, 09:02 PM
Ham_Chu Ham_Chu is offline
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 164

Thanx guys...I think we decided to narrow it down to the 3P and/or Prone CMP events.

(Although the prone sounds like a better place to start)
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Old 07-29-2018, 04:29 PM
1776 rebel 1776 rebel is offline
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 232

You didn't mention your age but smallbore is shot by all ages. From high school to seniors. When I was a youngin in college shooting 3P international I shot at the same club as NY Long Islander Fred Cole. That was in the 1970. And he was a working professional in his 30s at least. Last I checked he was still shooting until a few years ago. 50 or 60 years of shooting at the top ranks !

Also don't rule out Air Rifle these days. It is in its early days as a competitive sport. If you have any talent you could make a name for yourself ! Plus it comes with the added benefit of incredible cheap ammo cost. And you can practice in your basement. And legal rules in NY are much easier. Although a really nice competition 3P rifle are still 1 or 2 grand made by same manufacturers.

Google around. 3P isnt the only rimfire competition. Probably at least 2 dozen disciplines today.

Good luck....
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Old 07-30-2018, 04:01 PM
presidentg presidentg is offline
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 1,567

I have many Savage rifles and I have the highest opinion of them. The Target model of the MK2(a repeater) and MK1(single shot) are your entry level position rifles. There's images of them in the Sales pages of this site. I have a MK1 FVT. I also have a MK2 Tactical.
My only issue with the MK1 FVT is the stock. I found it very difficult to build a solid prone position. Too much drop in the stock for me so I just couldn't get a cheek weld.
I can't confirm this but I have heard that Savage will set up one of the FVT rifles with the Boyds tactical stock on special order. If not you can purchase the stock as a drop in directly from Boyds.

The problem with something like the Savage is that it's strictly entry level. For the money you would be far better off with something like a Winchester 75, Remington 513, H&R M12 or Kimber 82 GOV all of which can be found for 20-30% more the the list price of the FVT. I just checked Cabelas and they have used examples starting under $600. I'm sure you could do better than Cabelas prices without much effort.

That said my best advice is to buy what you want. I dropped a breath-taking amount of money on an Anschutz Super Match back in 2010. I have never regretted it.

Have fun!!
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