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  #21  
Old 04-05-2018, 05:11 PM
Dancing2as1 Dancing2as1 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Keystone State PA
Posts: 63
Default M1 Carbine ...

Hi Steve,

Thanks for your post after receiving my PM which added the thought of using Inland's since they produced more than 4 x's any other manufacture of USGI
M1 Carbines. I just looked at a very interesting article on the .22 Tcm caliber. I like the looks of the caliber you highlighted. It did however make reference that the .22 Tcm brass is like gold. That is of concern and was one of the reasons why I was hopeful of a more common caliber to drive prices of the ammo down, so that of course we can spend the same amount by shooting more, LOL -- isn't that how it always works?

As a point of reference for my fellow Members to enjoy check out the .22 Tcm caliber link of:

https://www.theboxotruth.com/educati...22-tcm-pistol/

Steve may of course being more of an experts have others.

Sincerely, JL


Quote:
Originally Posted by s11033 View Post
Hey JL,

.223 is also too long for the magazine and action. Iíve played with .22 TCM in the Carbine, which fits the action and magazine. I really hope it continues to gain traction, but for now I wouldnít call it a readily available caliber either.

9mm has a larger case head than the .30 Carbine and I think significant work would be required to the bolt. Not to mention that Iíd need to make new magazines. The other challenge is that M1 Carbine barrels seem harder to machine than some of the other designs, so thatís an added obstacle.

Chiappa got around the bolt issues in their 9mm Carbine version by making a blowback design, but it only resembles the original carbines externally. I donít think that any internal parts are interchangeable.

I think youíd be well served by a Mini 14. Itís got a very similar feel to the M1 Carbine, and you can change the handguard out for a wooden one to get a more similar look.

Iíll certainly do some further research into offering a .22 TCM conversion if thereís interest. I love the caliber and built a short-barreled AR chambered in it for home defense.

Steve
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  #22  
Old 04-05-2018, 05:21 PM
s11033 s11033 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dancing2as1 View Post
Hi Steve,

Thanks for your post after receiving my PM which added the thought of using Inland's since they produced more than 4 x's any other manufacture of USGI
M1 Carbines. I just looked at a very interesting article on the .22 Tcm caliber. I like the looks of the caliber you highlighted. It did however make reference that the .22 Tcm brass is like gold. That is of concern and was one of the reasons why I was hopeful of a more common caliber to drive prices of the ammo down, so that of course we can spend the same amount by shooting more, LOL -- isn't that how it always works?

As a point of reference for my fellow Members to enjoy check out the .22 Tcm caliber link of:

https://www.theboxotruth.com/educati...22-tcm-pistol/

Steve may of course being more of an experts have others.

Sincerely, JL
Hey JL,

I think that info about the TCM might be outdated.

I used to buy my brass from ammosupplywarehouse.com for 15 cents a case. Itís Armscor brass and is pretty good as long as youíre not shooting it out of blowback guns. Blowback is tough on any bottleneck case...

I now get my brass on Etsy. There are a couple sellers that take good LC 5.56 brass and convert it to TCM. It costs about 16 cents a piece.

I get my bullets from ammosupplywarehouse for about 7 cents a pop, but you could probably use regular surplus 55gr fmjs given the extra mag length of the Carbine.

I think it would be a cool conversion. I just think the barrels would be challenging to make. Iíll look into it further as I clear other projects off the board.

Steve
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  #23  
Old 04-05-2018, 06:22 PM
Polaris Polaris is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Central Minnesota
Posts: 779
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s11033 View Post
The good thing is that I can offer both! The barrel is arguably the easiest part to source for this project. I think that making nice stocks will be the bigger challenge.

Is black walnut a requirement for the vintage matches? I know at my range, vintage match shooters show up with some nice figured stocks, but I don’t really know the full rules because I just shoot my BM59s and Swedes. Are there any requirements for trigger pull? I know the ‘17 triggers can be made pretty nice, but I also know there are trigger weight requirements for Garands.

For the Ljungman project we’re primarily using tiger maple, cherry and curly walnut, and those were the types I was planning to use for the ‘17s as well. Maybe curly walnut would be legal?

Thank you,

Steve
4.2.4 Other As-Issued U. S. Military Rifles The rifle must be a manually operated rifle that was issued by the U.S. Armed Forces and be in as-issued condition. Permitted rifles are the Caliber .30 U. S. Model 1917 and the Caliber .30-40 U. S. Krag. Other U. S. military rifles such as the Caliber .30-40 M1895 (lever action) and 6mm caliber M1895 Lee-Navy rifle may be used.
a) Rifles must be as issued by the U.S. Armed Forces, with standard stock and sights;
b) Trigger pulls may not be less than 3.5 lbs;
c) Sights must be of the same types that were on rifles issued to regular military personnel, except that the front sight may be retrofitted with a blade with the same profile as the as-issued sight that is not wider than 0.100”;
d) The use of shims made of any material in the action and barrel bedding areas of the stock is prohibited;
e) Only U.S. Government Issue parts or non-U. S. Government or commercial parts of the exact same weight and dimensions may be used; and
f) As-issued M1917 rifles must be chambered for the .30-06 cartridge. U. S. Krag rifles must be chambered for the .30-40 Krag cartridge.

Perhaps someone with direct experience can chime in. I believe stock wood may be other than walnut if it conforms to original dimension and weight range. New manufactured barrels are legal if they conform to original dimensions. Curly walnut would absolutely be legal, and beautiful.
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  #24  
Old 04-05-2018, 07:25 PM
s11033 s11033 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
4.2.4 Other As-Issued U. S. Military Rifles The rifle must be a manually operated rifle that was issued by the U.S. Armed Forces and be in as-issued condition. Permitted rifles are the Caliber .30 U. S. Model 1917 and the Caliber .30-40 U. S. Krag. Other U. S. military rifles such as the Caliber .30-40 M1895 (lever action) and 6mm caliber M1895 Lee-Navy rifle may be used.
a) Rifles must be as issued by the U.S. Armed Forces, with standard stock and sights;
b) Trigger pulls may not be less than 3.5 lbs;
c) Sights must be of the same types that were on rifles issued to regular military personnel, except that the front sight may be retrofitted with a blade with the same profile as the as-issued sight that is not wider than 0.100Ē;
d) The use of shims made of any material in the action and barrel bedding areas of the stock is prohibited;
e) Only U.S. Government Issue parts or non-U. S. Government or commercial parts of the exact same weight and dimensions may be used; and
f) As-issued M1917 rifles must be chambered for the .30-06 cartridge. U. S. Krag rifles must be chambered for the .30-40 Krag cartridge.

Perhaps someone with direct experience can chime in. I believe stock wood may be other than walnut if it conforms to original dimension and weight range. New manufactured barrels are legal if they conform to original dimensions. Curly walnut would absolutely be legal, and beautiful.
Thanks for chiming in on that. Hopefully someone can confirm or deny whether repro stocks would be legal. Iím hoping so!

Any opinion on the Criterion Ď17 barrels? Iíve had good luck with them on other rifles.

Best,

Steve
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  #25  
Old 04-05-2018, 08:38 PM
gf113 gf113 is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Wisconsin.
Posts: 25
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Those are the barrels I choose if I were rebarrling a 17
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  #26  
Old 04-05-2018, 09:02 PM
s11033 s11033 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gf113 View Post
Those are the barrels I choose if I were rebarrling a 17
Good to hear!

Steve
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  #27  
Old 04-06-2018, 08:05 AM
Kerz Kerz is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Eastern KY
Posts: 416
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Steve,
"Thanks for chiming in on that. Hopefully someone can confirm or deny whether repro stocks would be legal. I’m hoping so!"

I would suggest you run your final plans by CMP management for approval, i.e., Mr Johnson
Vic
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  #28  
Old 04-06-2018, 08:20 AM
s11033 s11033 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerz View Post
Steve,
"Thanks for chiming in on that. Hopefully someone can confirm or deny whether repro stocks would be legal. I’m hoping so!"

I would suggest you run your final plans by CMP management for approval, i.e., Mr Johnson
Vic
Will do, thanks!

Steve

EDIT: I Posted in the Ask CMP forum and got some really good replies. Looks like I'll be going forward with this.

Last edited by s11033; 04-06-2018 at 03:10 PM.
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  #29  
Old 04-06-2018, 03:37 PM
s11033 s11033 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 239
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Hey guys,

A quick update with good news, bad news and some other information.

The bad news is that I was planning to use the P.17 actions that are currently available from Sarco as a base. I called them today to see if I could get special pricing, but they told me that they've only got 5 left in stock. The silver lining is that they said they'll eventually have a good number of P.14 actions in stock, and those should work fine for builds that are not intended to be match-legal.

Another piece of good news is that I called the CNC machinist I'm working with today to tell him about this 1917 project, and he told me that he's already made 1917 stock sets and barrels, so he has the CNC programming written for them! So we could be ready to go on these very soon.

My business isn't big enough to handle paying FAET yet, so the way I think I'm going to deal with these builds is to have the customer buy the action from Sarco or another source and then ship it to me to refinish and complete for a fixed price. That way I'm just doing gunsmithing rather than manufacturing and don't have to worry about the tax and I can keep the total price 10% lower.

Does that sound reasonable?

Thanks,

Steve
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  #30  
Old 04-06-2018, 03:58 PM
gf113 gf113 is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Wisconsin.
Posts: 25
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Sounds good to me. So should I buy a 1917 action now? What's the difference from a p17 and p14 action? Just what's engraved?

Did sarco have a price on the p14 action?

Last edited by gf113; 04-06-2018 at 04:00 PM.
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